To think they MUST extend furlough in line with other European Countries

[LaurieFairyCake]

Most of the centrist countries are doing 12-24 months.

If they don't do it here for those industries that are hugely affected then we're looking at MASS unemployment, repossessions, huge housing benefit claims...

I don’t blame you Until

A stagnant furlough market for that length of time isn’t the right way to go

Rishi Sunak didn't do it out of the kindness of his heart last time.

He did it to save the economy.

And he'll have to do it again.

Its the cost of not getting the virus under control when they had the chance.

Because of this government and their ideological blindspots there may be stupid, stressful, dangerous shenanigans first where they learn the hard way.

Or maybe just a lot of tough talk then capitulation to reality.

I don't think it should extend as in people at home on 80% pay but I think something, support wise should happen in regards to people that are back in work but it hasn't picked up yet so shifts/hours aren't what they were.

No it shouldn’t be extended.

The problem with the furlough scheme isn't really the money. It's expensive, but the cost of mass unemployment is greater.

The bigger problem is that we don't really know what the new economic status quo is going to be, and we are distorting the economy's ability to adapt for it the longer we sustain the jobs of the old economy.

Retail is a prime example. It is almost certain that a significant portion of retail spending that shifted online after lockdown, is NEVER coming back to bricks and mortar retail. That means the physical retail sector is now too large. Furlough actively impedes the process of efficient reallocation of economic resources from old (retail) to new (online sales and distribution).

Looking at the entertainment sector, whilst it's certainly the case that restaurants, bars and nightclubs will recover, it's almost also certainly true that SOME of these business will simply be non-viable in the new world, even post-COVID.

High unemployment is always bad, but the economy needs the price signals that tell it how to adapt to the new post-covid world. Without them, we're going to impede long term growth.

So we need a way of supporting people properly whilst letting unviable sections of certain industries die off.

I'd favour something like withdrawing furlough support for certain businesses, but vastly upping support for people made unemployed.

We already have a support system for unemployed people so no furlough should not be extended.

OP, how do you suggest the government should pay for it? How exactly are they going to fund it?

I think it should be extended only for businesses who can’t reopen due to the restrictions.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme 46% ? Is that the tax rate over there ?

I think it was a good quick fix implemented quickly. However there has been time to devise sector appropriate support that targets support where it's needed.

It boils my piss that our accountants have put their payroll staff on rolling furlough when those staff are busier rather than twiddling their thumbs - because of administration of furlough!

Where we are - SD and businesses open and ending furlough - is the right way to go.

Totally understand Untils point - and the bit that strikes me is that unemployment benefits in Germany mean that people are much less likely to lose their home.

And as far as I'm aware there isn't the same attitude towards 'scroungers' - people are horrible to people on very meagre benefits in this country.

The cost of unemployment to the economy is huge, not to mention societal costs like rising crime and mental health issues, homelessness, domestic abuse.

No one I know in the arts industry can go back yet

I agree for businesses that still cannot open

For the rest no, the6 need to get back to work. Hundreds of thousands of us worked all through this, now their businesses are open they can to

@LaurieFairyCake

No one I know in the arts industry can go back yet

What are they doing in the arts?

Out of interest, I know many galleries have opened but not sure what redundancy situation is like

Arts in general got a pay out but it’s not for employees no

Agree with PPs that it should only be for businesses that can’t open. I’ve watched people be furloughed for 2-3 weeks as things at work are temporarily quiet. That happens all the time, a totally normally part of the business model and no way should companies be able to furlough people at taxpayers’ expense in those circumstances. It gives me the proper rage.

I think it should be extended but targeted. The travel industry cannot get back to normal while FCO advice is changing so much and we aren't introducing mass testing. Its a unique industry in that it hasn't just lost the income from the months it closed, its refunded the majority of what was sold in the previous year. Any bookings taken now for 2021 don't bring in any income until the customer pays their balance. Plenty of travel businesses are viable and seeing good future bookings but may not be here to fulfil them due to lack of cash flow through winter. The industry generates over £30b GPD. The last GDP and benefits payments will cost more than sector specific support.

I'm self employed in the wedding industry. Technically we've been allowed to reopen with weddings for 30 people. But the reality is, people don't want a wedding for 30 with the current restrictions so have chosen to postpone.

The self employed support covered the period from March-August so less than the furlough scheme. But I've now lost 95% of this year's work, the only work I've done this year being the work I undertook before March. And I have no bookings left at all until the end of the year. So there's been a massive shortfall of help for me. And even then, the support available was only a percentage of my profits so I've still had my business expenses to pay.

Extending the self employed support to wedding industry suppliers would be fantastic, but I don't expect the government to do it. As far as they're concerned, they've allowed weddings to restart so we should all be back working.

OP, I’m in Ireland and every penny of the pandemic payment has to be paid back - at source - once people start working again. Perhaps that’s why they are ‘able’ to continue it for longer. And - by the way - the minute you resume work, it ceases and you start paying it back immediately.

How would you feel if it had to be paid back by the individual in the UK? Think there would be more unrest about that. (Yes, I do realise that it will be taken back in other ways, but it doesn’t add an additional amount onto an already burdensome outgoing total each month)

Information like you have found tells you absolutely nothing bout the responsibility on the citizen to pay it back. Where will the government find it and what is the responsibility of the citizens?

I am not taking a moral stance on the yes it should/no it shouldn’t, but for gods sake think about the wider consequences.

No, it needs to end apart from support for whose businesses cannot open by law/rules of Covid. A quick fix at the time but can’t continue for months on end. Not fair on others who are actually working to be paying the cost of it.

Well, we're all going to be paying it back in a myriad of ways but yes, I'm happy (though I'm not furloughed) for people to pay it back over a long period of time

Yes to all of travel being dead. The arts I'm thinking about are all theatres, all dance, all dance - it's a massive industry.

Film is returning but very slowly and cautiously.

I think it should only remain in place for businesses that have been ordered to remain closed.

I’m in Ireland and every penny of the pandemic payment has to be paid back - at source - once people start working again. Perhaps that’s why they are ‘able’ to continue it for longer. And - by the way - the minute you resume work, it ceases and you start paying it back immediately

That’s a much better idea (presuming it’s not like student loans where it gets written off).

I really hope not. It needs to stop now. We can’t keep propping up non-existent jobs forever. When will it end? Spring 2021? Does it become a seasonal thing if COVID comes back? It’s not sustainable or affordable to continue.

And I say this as someone whose partner lost their job in the pandemic so I do have sympathy. Our household hasn’t received a penny of furlough.

They need to sort out the 3 million self employed who missed out the first time before they extend support to those who've already received it. Ignoring those 3 million a second time when others are being looked after isn't acceptable.

Whatever "new" support is given will have to be different, very targeted, very measured. We can't have the free for all of the first time which was basically a lottery - some lucky people lucked out, others fell through the cracks.

I can envisage support only for industries that are prohibited from operating at all. Not for firms that can operate on a reduced basis.

Firms have had 6 months to change if they can. Furloughed employees have had 6 months to look for new jobs. Many firms and employees have moved on in different directions. The country can't afford to continue paying people who chose not to look for alternatives.