To think they MUST extend furlough in line with other European Countries

[LaurieFairyCake]

Most of the centrist countries are doing 12-24 months.

If they don't do it here for those industries that are hugely affected then we're looking at MASS unemployment, repossessions, huge housing benefit claims...

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, as a taxpayer and someone who has worked every day (except weekends and bank holidays) this year I want furloughed ended asap. However on the other hand, as the MD of a small engineering business with 6 members of staff still on furlough (about 40% of our staff) I would like it to continue at least until the end of January. We are struggling for work as many of our end users (big companies both UK and overseas) aren't back up to full manufacturing and staffing capacity and don't expect to be until the end of the year. It would really help us out if we could keep those 6 on furlough until January and then deal with the inevitable/hopeful upturn in orders but we can't afford to pay them all on the turnover we are seeing at the moment.

Following other countries mindlessly is not the way forward.

I hope so, I work in the arts (nothing remotely glamorous, I promise!) and there is little hope of returning at the end of October. I'm looking at other things .

Could you provide details of countries and their schemes as thought we were one of the more generous

Nope - all it will be doing is kicking the can down the road and cost many billions more which the UK debt is allready the biggest it has been since WW2, I went into my local town last night and it was just as busy as pre covid, bars and restaurants as busy as a Thursday night before lockdown, can't see any adverse effects on the economy where I live and also the house prices are at all time highs and selling like hot cakes, something isn't right, people must not be loosing jobs in my area and must of gotten a pay rise instead.

You have listed how long furlough in countries but what rated and what industries etc , for nightclubs etc that can't open yes need more help , no rates etc as well as help in other ways etc
Can't compare if we don't have all the info

@TeddyIsaHe

They’ll end furlough, everyone will kick up a stink, Boris will do his 50th u-turn in the space of a few months and people will be happy.

And continue to vote for him

No. Because of point raised by pp in Germany but also because it is a massive subsidy from the welfare budget which should be targeted based on need not job title.

The arts is big but I wondered what percentage was self employed. A quick google said 75%, not many will be using furlough.

S/E you do have to be adaptable. I include myself in this as S/E creative

Help needed all around really , i lost my job due to covid and cannot get anything else been looking and applying for months my jsa contributions based is due to end and this helps with food etc
Im desperate for a job and applying to all sorts but round here lack of jobs and local large company just made 150 redundant so things will only get harder
Feel goverment may have to help those of us looking and trying for longer as well and it does annoy me that i have always worked and paid taxes but i am only allowed just over £70 a week for max of 6 months , then nothing , when some have never paid in and get it continually

Also the call out for help from the arts sector meant a huge payment to save venues and art institutions. It’s right that they are protected

I'd prefer that we adopted the approach some other countries have taken. Universal basic income.

So many people lost their jobs or became too ill to work before Covid. Just like Covid related job loss, through no fault of their own. They too have bills and rents or mortgages to pay. We have a ridiculously unfair situation where people too unwell to work or made redundant before Covid are stuck struggling on £74 a week, whilst Covid related redundancy or sickness gets an extra £20. Both groups have the same expenses.

To think we could've saved so much money and so many jobs had we taken the NZ and Australia island approach. We could still do a belated version and be okish by December but I very much doubt we will. If only!

@userxx obviously it's not the only tax rate, but it's mine yes. The tax system is designed differently here and couples are taxed together, which benefits traditional couples where one stays at home but deters returning to work because if one partner earns a lower but not actually low income they are hot really hard with a big tax deduction, making it debatable whether it's worthwhile both working.

I don't object to high taxes really in general, I'm a believer in the solidarity principle and supporting those who can't support themselves, providing a safety net etc. but the ongoing furlough payouts at high rates when there are vacancies in essential areas getting no applicants and we're working overtime (time in lieu to be taken at a theoretical future date over the next two years) to cover vacant posts and quarantined people who chose to go on holiday to risk areas rankles at this point.

I'm thinking of reducing my hours because I can't support my children as well as those on furlough. There's nobody to fill any hours I withdraw from though.

The other issue is it’s harder to justify helping one sector when another may be at half capacity and to the people who have been made redundant it feels every bit as bad

We have universal credit we dont need universal basic income

If your not entitled then you have to much money coming in or too much in savings

Unless your a refugee that part needs to be sorted but for the most part universal credit works

Probably not a popular view, but I'd rather scrap furlough, and see out of work benefits paid at more humane amount. Technically, anyone who couldn't work during COVID could have claimed UC. Except it's not enough. But the government only seemed to care that it's not enough (and inflexible, and an administrative nightmare) when people like them were faced with claiming it.

No I don't think they extend it - one of the reasons for leaving Europe is to make our own decisions so I don't see what other countries are doing will factor.

@slipperywhensparticus Universal Credit doesn't cover mortgage, only rent. Plus it's not enough to live on. It does not work, there have been so many issues with it.

@TheTurn0fTheScrew

Probably not a popular view, but I'd rather scrap furlough, and see out of work benefits paid at more humane amount. Technically, anyone who couldn't work during COVID could have claimed UC. Except it's not enough. But the government only seemed to care that it's not enough (and inflexible, and an administrative nightmare) when people like them were faced with claiming it.

This.

I don't think they should extend it. I'm sick of anything profitable in public ownership being privatised but private companies being bailed out with taxpayers money.

Why should people scraping by on minimum wage be paying tax to pay the salaries of those in much better paid jobs that no longer exist?

This practice of socialising losses and privatising profits is near criminal imo. But it benefits the wealthy, so the Tories will carry on with it.

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@slipperywhensparticus Universal Credit doesn't cover mortgage, only rent. Plus it's not enough to live on. It does not work, there have been so many issues with it.[/quote]
It frequently doesn't pay rent either. Not the full amount anyhow. People can't survive on it. The welfare safety net should cover essentials - food, housing, gas and electric, clothes, toiletries, transport, internet (needed to contact medical help and mental health/social services support, jobhunt, avoid isolation, etc).

@Blobby10

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, as a taxpayer and someone who has worked every day (except weekends and bank holidays) this year I want furloughed ended asap. However on the other hand, as the MD of a small engineering business with 6 members of staff still on furlough (about 40% of our staff) I would like it to continue at least until the end of January. We are struggling for work as many of our end users (big companies both UK and overseas) aren't back up to full manufacturing and staffing capacity and don't expect to be until the end of the year. It would really help us out if we could keep those 6 on furlough until January and then deal with the inevitable/hopeful upturn in orders but we can't afford to pay them all on the turnover we are seeing at the moment.

The thing is, though, that some firms aren't up to full speed, because other firms aren't up to full speed. That causes a vicious circle. Some firms can afford to "cruise" given their staff wages are paid by furlough, they've had the business rates grants, etc. There's no incentive for them to push forward when they're happy treading water. If the furlough wasn't there, they'd have to put more effort into finding work, put more pressure on their suppliers to deliver the stock, more pressure on customers to place orders, etc.

On a small scale, one of my clients is a window blind fitter. He has 20/30 orders but he can't get the blinds from the factory which is still closed! He's not pressuring them and not looking for another factory to make them either. He's happy because he's had his grants etc and has actually quite enjoyed bumming around for a few months. He stopped advertising and now just gets the occasional call from past customers which he adds to the order pile. If support is continued, he'll just carry on as he is. He's only now starting to think about starting up again and has been ringing around alternative factories to supply him with the aim of starting to fit again in a month or two's time when the weather gets too bad for him to enjoy his temporary outdoor life. If there is no more support, he'll start taking it more seriously and either pressure the normal factory to supply or sign up to a different one - he'd also have to start advertising again to keep his order book healthy once he'd cleared the backlog.

That's the problem - too many people are too comfortable and need a push to get off their butts.

Furlough made sense to try to save jobs and avoid mass redundancies, but our scheme wasn't very well thought out (too generous short-term, making extension harder to afford). The German model sounded better. Then again, the Australian and NZ Covid approach was even better for saving jobs and the economy. Like them we're an island so had that option too.

Probably not a popular view, but I'd rather scrap furlough, and see out of work benefits paid at more humane amount

Absolutely this.

And, for those who have mortgages, there should be some sort of system of mortgage support where at least part of the interest is covered for a decent period, eg a year, up to a maximum amount, without a charge against the property being involved.

It could be funded by a "mortgage protection tax" paid as part of the mortgage repayment. As only mortgage-payers would benefit from it, it would be fairer than expecting poor people with no hope of ever buying a home to subisdise richer people's biggest asset.

I’m a bit torn on this too but we simply can’t afford it can we?

I also don’t think anyone in the public sector should have had a pay rise this year and I AM public sector.