To ask what you think about a British government openly declaring that it will break international law?

[Pepperwort]

This is regarding Johnson’s government’s new stated dislike of the Withdrawal agreement, which Johnson turfed May out over, negotiated, and signed.

For those not watching the news (living under rocks as it’s the top headline), the new Internal Market Bill they are presenting has a clause to the effect that any international law or court can be ignored at will. There are severe repercussions for the GFA and NI. The government have openly confirmed they will break the Withdrawal Agreement and any international law they don’t like. The EU has of course objected, and Gove has confirmed the government does not care. Not only could this scupper talks with the EU, but with the US, who have always been broadly supportive of Northern Ireland. It damages our international reputation in general and risks us being seen as a rogue state. This is beyond political posturing, just as it is beyond the old remain/ leave arguments, because we have already left. A former Tory leader and lord has spoken against it.

For voting, let’s say it’s aimed at the government. So YABU - Britain should not start its independent existence as a sovereign state by breaking laws. YANBU - go ahead, international laws are there for the breaking.

Im also nervous about the other set of rules and courts mentioned in this new bill: it mentions domestic law, as well as international. I hope that the laws ministers are giving themselves power to override thereby are very carefully limited, by circumstance and by type. How that’s going to be used in the future worries me.

I agree OP, I think alongside Marshalls and curfews, this week things are starting to feel very ominous

www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/09/brexit-uk-controversial-internal-market-bill-200909130126772.html

The above link was informative about the issues involved.

[quote LakieLady]@Hingeandbracket, do share the list of British car manufacturers that still build cars here, and exclude all the high end ones like Bentley, Aston Martin, Morgan etc.

I can't get beyond the company that makes the Caterham 7, but they only build 100 or so a year, so don't make a massive contribution to the economy.[/quote]
Sure I will, as soon as you point out where I said that.

Hinge - you said the post was inaccurate but you failed to say exactly what was wrong with it.

I don't know whether you are right or wrong but I'd be interested to know which bit of Lakie's post was inaccurate.

@Notonthestairs

Hinge - you said the post was inaccurate but you failed to say exactly what was wrong with it.

I don't know whether you are right or wrong but I'd be interested to know which bit of Lakie's post was inaccurate.

Lakie said Cars - where did they come from? Hardly any are still made in the UK by British companies, and the ones that are, are either high-end (Bentley, Rolls-Royce, for instance) or fall apart (I learned to drive in a Ford Fiesta).

Rolls and Bentley are made her but have German ownership (VW and BMW respectively. So that was wrong.
And the "ones that are made here fall apart" quoting a Fiesta as an example is just opinion, not fact.

Fiestas haven't been made in the UK at all since 2002 and even before then some models were imported from elsewhere in Europe - so where does that leave the "fell apart" sneering?

If this was the much vaunted factual logical basis for everything that Leavers "don't understand" it's not up to much.

The often repeated claim about us have no manufacturing was also trotted out as if fact. I agree much (but not all) of it is foreign-owned, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The often repeated claim about us have no manufacturing was also trotted out as if fact. I agree much (but not all) of it is foreign-owned, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I mentioned that as well. It was the case, just two years ago, that UK manufacturing was highly interdependent with EU supply chains. Even now, how much are firms prepared to manufacture internally, with no EU material input?

I just hope those Conservative MPs in the Red Wall seats are feeling secure and comfortable at the moment.

It's just a few months to the end of December.
Unemployment is going to be high.

@Pepperwort - thank you. No it's not my only concern. I am horrified at what we've become, terrified of the casualness towards the GFA & aghast that a Government could fight an election less than 9 months ago on a premise that they now don't believe. And in addition I believe that any serious government would have extended the transition period (as they were offered) to deal with the pandemic. But I'm fed up of being called a bitter Remoaner so I keep my mouth shut more now.

@Tillygetsit

It's so humiliating to be English at the moment. What must the world think of us?

I think most of the ex colonies are wondering why you are all surprised?! Pretty much on form for a British government.

I think most of the ex colonies are wondering why you are all surprised?! Pretty much on form for a British government

Pretty much on form for a Tory Government
Certainly on form for Johnson.

Pretty much on form for a British government of imperial and authoritarian bent steeped in the upper-class rubbish about how wonderful the Victorian age was. Destroying all the progression through the late period and early 20th century, re-establishing decent lives for the working classes.

I believe that any serious government would have extended the transition period (as they were offered) to deal with the pandemic

Agree 10000%
Actions like this show how utterly disposable us normals are to them.

But I'm fed up of being called a bitter Remoaner so I keep my mouth shut more now

I agree. Part of me just wants to say 'well, fuck you,maybe you can't see the economic effects - but I'll be alright and fuck you if you lose your job. You voted for it. '

More worrying is Johnson's rant in the Telegraph that he has had to do this because the EU will stop food being shipped to NI and vice versa, that the EU seeks to break up the UK.....

He is portraying Europe as our enemy, to be be defeated.

Gove saying he is on a joint committee with the UK Govt and the EU Govt, again portraying the EU as a state, one to be fought against......

The narrative now is to have the EU as our common enemy.

I was going to say Nothing this government does could shock me any more. But I don’t dare tempt fate.

I think most of the ex colonies are wondering why you are all surprised?! Pretty much on form for a British government.

"2016 NZ asylum seeker policy breaks international law."

"For the first time ever, New Zealand was accused of illegally detaining asylum seekers in mainstream prisons" ... "It's very clear from international law that asylum seekers should never be detained in prisons alongside other prisoners."

www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/nz-asylum-seeker-policy-breaks-international-law/

"2015 The United Nations Special Rapportuer on Torture has found that various aspects of Australia’s asylum seeker policies violate the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment."

"The Government always assures the Australian people that it complies with its international human rights obligations. But here we have the United Nations once again, in very clear terms, telling the Government that Australia's asylum seeker policies are in breach of international law," said Mr Webb."

"The report finds that Australia's indefinite detention of asylum seekers on Manus Island, the harsh conditions, the frequent unrest and violence inside the centre and the failure to protect certain vulnerable individuals all amount to breaches of the Convention."

www.hrlc.org.au/news/un-finds-australias-treatment-of-asylum-seekers-violates-the-convention-against-torture

@jasjas1973

More worrying is Johnson's rant in the Telegraph that he has had to do this because the EU will stop food being shipped to NI and vice versa, that the EU seeks to break up the UK.....

He is portraying Europe as our enemy, to be be defeated.

Gove saying he is on a joint committee with the UK Govt and the EU Govt, again portraying the EU as a state, one to be fought against......

The narrative now is to have the EU as our common enemy.

What the heck are they playing at? Do they want war in the seas now? Or is it just FUD to keep themselves in power?

Related to which ‘and another thing’ the bill has me worried about is the future role of councils. At this point I wish I had legal knowledge, but the talk of facilitating funding for all the usual council activities - is it to help, or more centralisation with no basic infrastructure?? It looks to my untutored eye as if it’s not just the devolved nations who need to worry. I’m a bit mystified.

Every time I see another one of those cut and paste jobs by @Clavinova simply reinforces the point that he/she is obviously lacking any sort of moral compass.

It's a bit like a child being told off for major misbehaviour claiming it was OK because the child down the road did something too.

OchonAgusOchonO

Which category have you put Australia and New Zealand into?
Your post;

"Breaking an international agreement is generally something done by depots, dictatorships and other disreputable governments."

Oh, Clavinova there you are. You spent time last year 'proving' that I should have no concern about Brexit causing supply problems and that I was fretting needlessly about a large chunk of local road half-inched for stacked up lorries to park in as they wait to cross the Channel. Its still being worked on in preparation for the impending disaster that you and your mates have wished on us. Thanks.

longwayoff

If I remember correctly I linked to Kent County Council's Brexit Preparedness Update;

"Kent County Council, working with its partners has taken responsible and timely actions to prepare for all eventualities, including a potential no-deal scenario.Kent has well-developed plans to ensure we minimise disruption to Kent’s residents and businesses." ...

"Kent is in a strong position to ensure the County Council can meet its statutory obligations, that Kent’s public services continue, communities are kept moving, and businesses can continue to trade."

Thanks. Not Kent.

What is being side stepped in the defence of breaking international law is that this Government:-

1. negotiated the treaty;
2. rushed it through Parliament and rejected further calls for time to review it;
3. ditched MP's that stated valid concerns;
4. signed it with great fanfare; and
5. then fed it to the nation during the election as the answer to Brexit.

The treaty was their own shoddy work. Only the most ardent Brexiteer can find anything to be proud of here.

Appears to me that Bojo signed the WA treaty in order to win an election, what was in it, didn't matter, as he knew any criticism could be batted away as "remoaner moaning"

Now he needs to re write it, so using his 80 seat majority he can do so.
But it still doesn't change the fact that if the UK diverges from EU standards, then controls have to re introduced to prevent non complaint goods entering the ROI and hence the EU, there cannot be an open border.

The damage to our international relations doesn't concern Cummings or Johnson.