Why are some teachers so unnecessarily mean?

[barhari]

DC1's new teacher is infamous for being very strict - she's fairly old school. The children are genuinely afraid of her. One mum actually specified her child not be put in this strict teacher's form.

She just has such an attitude with the kids - her only form of communication is to berate and tell off. She's fine with adults.

This particular teacher reminds me of a couple of my own - of course, I'm not saying all teachers are like this but I'm just curious how they get away with it? Are they just miserable in themselves? Surely no one thinks this is an effective way of communicating with a child.

There's strict and then there's just plain miserable. Why get into teaching?

Some parents are cruel, why have children?

Some pet owners are cruel, why have a pet?

Some doctors are cruel, why become a doctor?

Some threads on Mumsnet are pointless, why start the thread?

This list could go on and on and on.... just like this pointless intentional teacher bashing thread.

I have met many more mean, incompetent, unkind parents than I have teachers

There was a 'lovely' teacher at my DC's primary school. She picked on one SEN child each year - isolated and bullied them. One year it was DS2, next year my friend's son. Previous years, other parents admitted it was their child. The things she said about them and to them were unbelievable. And no one believed them because she was sunny as anything to everyone else so thought we were over reacting difficult parents. I still see her around and even though it was years ago, I get this rush of anger at the sight of her.

Sorry @Iamnotthe1 it's hard for me to think back on that time. When you see the light in your child dim, well it still hurts.

Personally, I think teachers should be allowed to be strict. I hate when children get away with stuff that is disruptive, or making anyone else suffer - teacher or student.

I also think stretched targets are fantastic, it teaches a child that they are capable of things greater than they think they are. But targets should be stretched, not unattainable. That just...crushes a child.

@mmgirish

Some parents are cruel, why have children?

Some pet owners are cruel, why have a pet?

Some doctors are cruel, why become a doctor?

Some threads on Mumsnet are pointless, why start the thread?

This list could go on and on and on.... just like this pointless intentional teacher bashing thread.

Well, yes, those are all fair questions. Questions you may find you're asking if you ever came across a particularly horrible doctor, parent or pet owner. If you said "why are some pet owners so vile to their pets? Why do they even have pets?" and then gave an example of low level animal cruelty, would you find it questionable if a load of pet owners popped on and said "stop pet owner bashing! You probably just have a problem with pet owners wah, wah, we're always being picked on"? Obviously, only a small number of teachers have come on here to do this. There have been many posts from teachers, saying they agree; SOME teachers are downright evil.

Yes, you get horrible bastards in all jobs. I mean, we know that. Most of us work or have worked recently. I know some absolutely evil people who work in hospitality and kitchens. Evil little bastards, bullies, self important assholes. All of that. But omg I would be astonished if any of those people wanted to, or were allowed to, work with small children.

Yes, there are teacher shortages, depending on subject and area, but I think some of these less than wonderful teachers get stuck in a teaching role and just stay there; even more so in subjects where there are not shortages in their area, as they know they won't be able to just walk into another job. In secondary, where teachers only have one subject and it is a subject like Art or History and certainly in the primary schools where I live, the competition is extremely fierce for jobs. Because even if there is a national shortage of some subjects, it doesn't always mean those jobs will come up anywhere near where the teacher lives and wants to stay.

But, even in subjects where there are shortages, it is a very strange choice for teachers who hate their jobs, and find that they take that out on the kids they teach, to stay in those jobs. And if they are staying because they enjoy the benefits, well, cheer up then. Make your choice; stay or go. Don't hang around, making the lives of your colleagues and pupils a misery, cheers.

This is not aimed at strict teachers. Just the out and out horrible ones which other teachers on here have agreed do exist. There aren't a lot of them, thankfully and I've never met a teacher I thought was pure evil. But certainly, I have met teachers who I thought shouldn't be in their jobs anymore.

@monkeyonthetable

There was a 'lovely' teacher at my DC's primary school. She picked on one SEN child each year - isolated and bullied them. One year it was DS2, next year my friend's son. Previous years, other parents admitted it was their child. The things she said about them and to them were unbelievable. And no one believed them because she was sunny as anything to everyone else so thought we were over reacting difficult parents. I still see her around and even though it was years ago, I get this rush of anger at the sight of her.

I think I know this teacher - or at least we had one pretty similar! The thing with teachers that make it worse is that they are trusted to look after a vulnerable member of society - they have power and control over someone who is smaller than them and you, the bad ones can easily lie about what is going on in the classroom and you can prove nothing. Moving schools to resolve issues is a bit of a sledgehammer, quite a bit more disruptive than moving dentist or doctor, so not comparable. Although we did move schools because of the behaviour of the teachers, the school had a rotten to the core culture and the school we moved to was amazing - even if Ofsted judged we’d moved from an outstanding school to a school that required improvement. We’d moved to a school staffed by human beings.

There was one really nasty teacher at my old primary school. I was lucky enough to not have her but my brother did.
One time I knocked on her door as I had a message to give from my own teacher. She couldn't hear me knock on her door as the class were quite noisy so I went in. As soon as she saw me she told me to get out and knock on the door and wait properly to be let in. Humiliation for me as a 9 year old in front of a whole class!
I don't know why they choose these roles. Even my mum said she was a witch who didn't really like children!

Some of just arseholes who love the power trip. Some are just plain bullies.

In my experience I’ve always found them to be older and I wonder if that comes with the adage ‘thems who do get on with it thems who can’t teach.’

I feel teaching has gotten A LOT harder in recent decades and think perhaps many older teachers attitudes towards the kids have soured at it being such a different world.

Because for some it's just the same repetitive job they've been doing for 20 years but it pays the mortgage ......... Groundhog Day with a room full of other people's kids.

@Armi

At least we’re all being exposed to possible large viral loads of Covid 19, OP, and will soon be desperately unwell or dead. That should cheer you up, OP.

Mean and melodramatic....

Being a teacher who is an arsehole is different from being a bus driver who is an arsehole. Bus drivers don't really have the power to inspire children and help prepare them for their futures. They're a massive part of our lives as young people.

Whilst people replied in good faith, the OP hasn't returned so 🤷‍♀️

I feel teaching has gotten A LOT harder in recent decades and think perhaps many older teachers attitudes towards the kids have soured at it being such a different world.

True, I think they probably came into teaching at a time when things may have been easier for teachers. Teaching is a lot harder now. The great teachers have risen to that and it's really admirable. Others hate it and leave. Good idea. Then there are the ones who hate in and stick around, because they cannot find another job that will pay nearly as well or with a similar pension scheme etc. In which case, suck it up buttercup. Stay or go, but don't stay and take your choices out on the children you teach and your fellow teachers.

I disagree with "those who can, do. Those who can't, teach", though. If you were going to become a surgeon, you wouldn't get a teacher who couldn't perform surgery to teach you, would you? Or an electrician, or an engineer etc. Teaching is a skill of its own, but the best teachers can also do a lot. Teaching children as well, means that teachers also have to provide pastoral care and safeguarding. It is a complex and sophisticated job, which needs intelligent, compassionate and dedicated people to do it. The sad thing is that the ones who are not all of (or any of) these things can entrench themselves in a school and just sit there, collecting their salaries and hating every second of their job. Not good for the pupils, the school, the teachers' colleagues or the teachers themselves.

What would be great, but I don't think will happen any time soon, would be if they could improve conditions for teachers, but also provide more quality control and higher standards for teaching. But, don't see that happening under a Tory government tbh. I also don't think the unions would like it much either if standards changed, so that teachers who regularly do not meet those standards could be shunted out. Doing that without improving conditions and training for teachers couldn't happen anyway, so it's a bit of a sorry state tbh.

@LolaSmiles

Whilst people replied in good faith, the OP hasn't returned so 🤷‍♀️

Quite Lola. I posted twice saying I think OP is a journo after some quotes. Or a wind em up and watch em go basher that doesn't have the guts to bash themselves. Still, they've certainly found their people!

@WhereTheCrawdadsSing

I've been a teacher for a long time. The only cruel teacher I've met was when I was a pupil myself.

On the other hand, I've lost count of how many times I've witnessed parents repeatedly do and say cruel things to their children.

[quote mmgirish]@WhereTheCrawdadsSing

I've been a teacher for a long time. The only cruel teacher I've met was when I was a pupil myself.

On the other hand, I've lost count of how many times I've witnessed parents repeatedly do and say cruel things to their children.

[/quote]
And? Does that mean there are no horrible teachers? I haven't met one either, but I'd bet you a tenner they exist.

Bad parents exist too and if you start a thread right now, saying "why are some parents so mean?", with an example of something cruel you have seen a parent do recently, I'm sure you will get a lot of support, told to report to SS if appropriate. You may get the odd weirdo saying "so what if he calls his 4 yo a fat cunt? Keep your nose out", but those people are unhinged.

Parents being cruel to their children is terrible. The fact it happens does not mean teachers are never cruel though, does it? Not relevant on this thread tbh, but thanks for sharing and all that.

Or a wind em up and watch em go basher that doesn't have the guts to bash themselves.
Still, they've certainly found their people!

If you think this and don't want to join in the conversation, then, ok, off you go then .

The whataboutery is hilarious - some professional teachers are mean...well what about some parents their mean too! What the fuck has poor parenting to do with a professional being crap! Race to the bottom...if parents treat their kids like shit we can too?

I much prefer a strict teacher for my children, obviously not a mean one, but i think teachers see our children more than we do normally & should be able to be stricter if they need to be.
I have also seen some mean parents so you do get it in all walks of life

We had one who was just like a little bomb. She could laugh then go off in a second, completely unpredictable. My friend had to have counselling to be able to walk into her class.

* But how many genuinely horrible teachers are only mean to kids? I have worked with a couple of mean teachers in my time and they were horrible to certain kids, they were horrible to certain colleagues and they were rude and shirty with certain parents. I think teachers who are only horrible to children are very few and far between. Just like in every walk of life.*

This really is true. There are teachers who are bullies, like there are in all other professions. Because some school bullies grow up to be bullies in the workplace. Some become bullying parents, and some parents become bullies at the school gate.

No one is saying that all teachers are horrible. I’m certainly not; I’ve been very happy with all my DDs’ teachers.

@Aisforharlot

We had one who was just like a little bomb. She could laugh then go off in a second, completely unpredictable. My friend had to have counselling to be able to walk into her class.

Yes, we had one like this actually. She would go bananas at something minor and then giggle when she caught someone doing something really bad. It was so strange.

I went to her house once, by accident! We were seeing friends who were visiting and staying with their friends. We were sitting in the living room with our friends. The owners of the house were out. Then, a reminder came on the tv for a programme on a porn channel. My mum was there as well and we all just studiously ignored it. Then the friends came home and it was my old teacher . Made me giggle. She was bonkers though. I asked her a question, re the subject we were studying, in class and she went berserk once. Was so weird. Then she caught my friend skipping school, came up to us in the corridor and said "I was walking down the street during school hours yesterday and who did I see but Lucy Jones, sauntering down the street 🤨💣". We were waiting for the 💥, when she giggled and said "don't do it again, you little rascal" .

She wasn't evil though, just a bit odd.

There's a really nasty man in our building who is an early years teacher. He's on all the local FB groups 24/7 (to the point I was surprised to learn he had a job) trolling and making horrible comments. He was banned from one, and now uses a couple of fake accounts to bolster his own posts, but it's not hard to tell it's him. He blasts loud music, talks loudly outside on his phone at all hours, dumps his rubbish off his balcony, all the while eagerly looking around to see if anyone is watching. It's like he enjoys pissing people off.

I honesty think he's a teacher because it's the only power he could obtain. It's forced respect. During Covid, whenever anyone would praise NHS staff, he'd jump in and demand to be called a hero for still working. It's so pathetic. I dread to imagine how he treats the kids he teaches.

Iamnottheone Just because I was in the school in 60s and things were different then does not make it right. And men being able to rape their wives !. Do you really think that this does not still happen because the law has changed.
Children learn as they watch adults.
My class mates witnessed that it was acceptable to beat a child. humiliate someone just because you are in a position of power.
In the same school I also had lovely teachers and I remember them well. A child spends a lot of time in school and needs good role models.
But there is always the exception. It is this exception that will do untold damage no matter what year it is.

The whataboutery is hilarious - some professional teachers are mean...well what about some parents their mean too! What the fuck has poor parenting to do with a professional being crap! Race to the bottom...if parents treat their kids like shit we can too?

Nobody is saying that. The OP's question was "Why are some teachers unnecessarily mean?" And the answer is: "Because some people are unnecessarily mean". It would a bit odd to expect any job to have no mean people in it. That's not how the world is, unfortunately.

If teachers actually do things that constitute misconduct according to the terms of their contract, they can indeed be got rid of if they fail to mend their ways. If they are just not very nice... well, that's not so easy to solve. Not least because a lot of the time how nice/mean a teacher appears to be depends on the opinion of the individual child or parent. Admittedly there are teachers who are almost universally disliked, as there are unpopular people in any job.