To feel in despair for the kids

[JudesBiggestFan]

My son was one of 400 children sent home from two bubbles in his high school today to isolate for 14 days. He's in Year 7 and it was his fourth day in his new school.
He'd been catching the bus, made a new friend, had settled in so much better than I hoped after the past few chaotic disrupted months. And now he's home again.
Not only that, he is now going to miss his cricket presentation and first two football matches of the season, not be able to see friends and family, all for the pleasure of three days of schooling.
And I can see this happening over and over and over again. Luckily childcare isnt an issue as I work from home, but I'm just so sad for kids missing out. Six months off and it seems we're back where we started with no end in sight

"Schools are going to have to find a better way to do this than huge year group bubbles. The chances of him catching it from an unknown member of his year group he may have passed on the corridor are slim. They will end up having to just self isolate the people the child sat near during lessons or on the bus. Not the whole year"

Test and trace decides who self isolate. PHE decide when to send whole bubbles home etc not the school.

And bubbles were the government's idea and it is up to them to come up with a better way to do it. Until tjey are willing to pay to test pupils in the bubbles ( twice,) as is proposed for quarantine or have rolled out mass testing to schools I can't see it changing

[quote Charliescar]@Codexdivinchi I think that bars are especially bad , people forget about social distancing . I would much prefer for schools to remain open than bars . Yes, they are people’s livelihoods, but I work in legal and am still furloughed, so I am not sure if I have a job to go back to either .[/quote]
47,000 bars opened up in the beginning of August. Millions of people would have been through the doors. Why have we not had a second wave off that alone?

And you might be passive about losing your job because it will easy to be employed else where and you’ve actually got an income coming in but others are fighting for their businesses and don’t want to risk bankruptcy for 2% of the population

@Codexdivinchi
Exactly , all the bars opened ! People were a bit sceptical about going in them and once people saw other people going they all think it’s safe and ok . Like sheep ! A case of they are ok so I will be too.
There is an increase in cases !!! Have you not seen the news ! This did not happen when the shops opened on June .

I am definitely not passive about my job , I am extremely anxious about it because no it’s not easy to find a new job at the moment . Yes I have income coming in NOW , but probably not in November .

I would like to know if anyone has actually asked residents (Great Aunt Joan) in care homes what they would like to do, if they would like to go out and about, see family etc given that they have limited time left? Too many people speaking on their behalf and deciding that they are best left cooped up with limited family visits for the foreseeable. I reckon a lot of residents would say they have had a good innings and would rather take their chances.

It reminds me of the thread a while back where people were up in arms and sitting in judgement because an elderly lady with a portable oxygen tank was seen at the garden centre buying some flowers. This was apparently outrageous and the height of selfishness. Not at all outrageous or selfish if this lady only had six months to live. Better than spending your last six months staring at four walls.

@StormzyinaTCup My mum, who is not even old, has said that she would rather personally die of Covid than have her children live through 10 years of grim poverty like she had to. I don't think middle-class people in England realise what a real economic collapse could look like; people think it's just living in a council house and eating Tesco beans. People's savings can be wiped out overnight from hyperinflation, people get made homeless, there is nothing to buy and no job opportunities. That would cause multitudes more deaths than covid.

I can only speak for my elderly parents whom I have asked. They wish to spend time with their children and grandchildren even if that means an increased risk to them. They are happy to take the risk because they think education is important to the children’s future. (Ex teachers). And they want to take the risk because of quality of life for them.
But what makes me upset, is that so many families in my child’s class aren’t taking social distancing seriously or even doing anything at all. And therefore I have to choose between sending my child to school, and then creating a much bigger risk than necessary to grandparents, or insist we stay away from grandparents which again is very hard on them. If people would just social distance outside of school the risk would be much less.

It’s also a worry, that as a self employed person, I only have savings to cover having to self isolate 3 times (can’t work from home). So all those people ignoring social distancing and sending Their child to school with mine, mean an increased risk of financial crisis for us.

@BeijingBikini I do think you make a good point in your most recent post

[quote Charliescar]@Codexdivinchi
Exactly , all the bars opened ! People were a bit sceptical about going in them and once people saw other people going they all think it’s safe and ok . Like sheep ! A case of they are ok so I will be too.
There is an increase in cases !!! Have you not seen the news ! This did not happen when the shops opened on June .

I am definitely not passive about my job , I am extremely anxious about it because no it’s not easy to find a new job at the moment . Yes I have income coming in NOW , but probably not in November .[/quote]
So where are all the dying people then? Cases have gone up but not at the rate you’d expect considering every body is supposed to be ignoring SD whilst out in the pubs.

We have small pockets not a second wave. Pubs have been open 6/7 weeks - hospital admissions remain on a decline AND deaths.

The stats don’t lie.

Bolton - 200,000 people. They’ve locked it down again because 100people out of 100,000 have the infection. There is a 1% chance some one will die so that 2 people out of 200 thousand people.

It does not justify closing people’s businesses.

We have a fucking crazy amount using food banks millions -you nodding slack jawed at the tv whilst they are announcing yet more restrictions and pushing more people in to them - are part of the problem.

Your the sheep.

@Foxinthechickencoop

I can only speak for my elderly parents whom I have asked. They wish to spend time with their children and grandchildren even if that means an increased risk to them. They are happy to take the risk because they think education is important to the children’s future. (Ex teachers). And they want to take the risk because of quality of life for them. But what makes me upset, is that so many families in my child’s class aren’t taking social distancing seriously or even doing anything at all. And therefore I have to choose between sending my child to school, and then creating a much bigger risk than necessary to grandparents, or insist we stay away from grandparents which again is very hard on them. If people would just social distance outside of school the risk would be much less.

It’s also a worry, that as a self employed person, I only have savings to cover having to self isolate 3 times (can’t work from home). So all those people ignoring social distancing and sending Their child to school with mine, mean an increased risk of financial crisis for us.

But the people in hospitality are facing financial crisis too. Believe it or not most bars I’ve been in to have had table service only.

55 million people in England. Only 2% of will die if they catch the virus. The figure is too small to throw everybody else under the bus.

@modgepodge
Sorry, haven't read the whole thread, but I saw your comment about live streaming lessons to kids who are isolating.
That's what we're doing, and it's worked ok.
Dial up the child on Teams on a laptop and child can hear/follow/ be involved.
I've turned the laptop to the class so that the absent child can engage a bit and feel less out of it, and turned it to face the board if I'm projecting something.
Not ideal, but it's ok.

Only 2% of will die if they catch the virus

Where did you get 2% from? Latest from the CDC was that the death rate among infected is 0.6%, and I've seen various papers averaging out even lower than that.

@Codexdivinchi I’m not saying bars should shut. And people who age vulnerable don’t have to visit them. I just wish people who do visit them would social distance. To reduce the risk (appreciate you can’t eliminate it) and make it safer for the vulnerable to enjoy their lives to and make sensible judgements about what they do.

Is that in the US? I know it’s a pain but have you got a direct link?

New data from Germany has shown that fatality rates have declined across the board this is obviously what we are seeing

Exactly @BeijingBikini. I expect your mum is not in the minority either ( my DH who is early 50s and in the vulnerable category says the same and we have two teen DCs)

I can’t imagine there are many elderly people, who are aware of the current situation, that would want to see the younger generation (grandchildren) pushed into unemployment and poverty.

We need to get the economy and education started again as a priority or we are up poo creek without a paddle in so many ways.

@BeijingBikini

@Codexdivinchi My mistake, it was the WHO not the CDC, sorry for Daily Mail www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8588299/World-Health-Organization-says-Covid-19-kill-0-6-patients.html

There's a lot of different papers showing different estimates of the IFR, I think someone compiled them and it averaged at about 0.2%, but this was a couple of months ago so may have changed now.

@Codexdivinchi

You are so very wrong about me . I actually work for a housing charity . I am well aware of food banks and people’s struggles . So please do not judge me .

You are correct we do not have deaths yet , but there could be . Thankfully this is the case , nobody wants what we had before.

I guess you just think I will never understand because I have a job .

@Codexdivinchi I just don’t think our kids and young people should go without prospects and a future because we want a meal out . The problem is eating out has become such a normal thing these days whereas it was something just for a special occasion, hence why our towns and cities are full of eateries. There are way too many .

Yes it is shit. Nope I agree there is no end in sight. I feel I'm in a constant "you have a week left to live, what do you first?" Mentality. I'm constantly presuming something like this is a few days away so constantly tense and cramming in every thing I want / need to do.

Dd school also giving off vibes that everyone is one step away from.wiping the entire village out. I feel as welcome as paedophile with leprosy

I know there is no alternative, I know that. But I dont see a vaccine this year. Anyone who says this isnt a shit situation must love this pandemic. You can hate the current situation AND accept the consequences. That isnt mutually exclusive..

Education has totally gone 360 in my eyes this year. Like its not actually of worth to the majority / is a massive ball ache to society.

In fact I look back at all the parents evenings and being told how very very import it all is, then seeing my yr11 not sit exams and I dont feel warm and fuzzy inside 🙄

[quote BeijingBikini]@Codexdivinchi My mistake, it was the WHO not the CDC, sorry for Daily Mail www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8588299/World-Health-Organization-says-Covid-19-kill-0-6-patients.html

There's a lot of different papers showing different estimates of the IFR, I think someone compiled them and it averaged at about 0.2%, but this was a couple of months ago so may have changed now.[/quote]
The WHO are quoting 0.6 % of those infected will die. Unbelievable. Just maddening.

[quote Charliescar]@Codexdivinchi I just don’t think our kids and young people should go without prospects and a future because we want a meal out . The problem is eating out has become such a normal thing these days whereas it was something just for a special occasion, hence why our towns and cities are full of eateries. There are way too many .[/quote]
Many many lives are built around the hospitality trade, not just owners but service staff, chefs, produce suppliers, butchers ect.. it’s a big chain. And also the beauty trade. All these people have mortgages and serious financial commitments. All have to take serious SD measures. Their lives are just as important as your parents. They need money to feed their children and to keep the roof over their heads.

If it was the pubs that were causing the rise in infections we would have millions falling down ill and dying. They are not.

New data from Germany finding that fatality rates are falling across all ages. This is being reflected by very low hospital admissions. We can’t keep using the excuse it’s just young people - these young people live with older members of family. Where are all the older and vulnerable people ? Locked in the shed?

We have to take heed of the data rather than wiping out millions of people’s incomes in a knee jerk reaction. This government is so shit!! It’s taking external agencies not connected to the government to find out new data - when the government should have access to all the best sources and evidence available.

I worked in my dh insolvency practice, I spoke to clients on the phone who were in debt, serious debt that had escalated quickly. A lot of people are only three pay checks away from being fucked. Their lives had crumbled. Many of them had considered suicide. Many of them had lost their marriages. This was before COVID. The whole industry is anticipating a wave of desperate people in the new year.

We have to take in to account the damage to all people this is causing.

Regarding schools. They absolutely should not be closing down while classes. It’s not the people eating out that’s ruining your kids education it’s the government and the teachers union

This business of 'locking up the elderly/ vulnerable' while the rest of us swan about having a jolly time doesn't feel like my reality.

Me and DH are still WFH. Kids back at school. We walk them there and back. A couple of their extra curricular activities have started up so we go to those. We don't travel anywhere except on foot, bike or to make sure the car battery doesn't die. We go to shops locally for food/ essentials, always wearing masks properly and using hand sanitiser, washing hands as soon as we get home. We had started to see friends (one family round for dinner for example) but now won't be able to as most friends have 2 kids so that takes us past the limit of 6. We're hardly going out to eat/ to pubs/ cinema/ theatre/ other fun activities as we're mindful of finances and wouldn't really want to ask people to babysit at the moment. Anecdotally this seems to be where most of our friends are at, apart from the ones who are having to travel for work.

I'm not unhappy about any of this, I accept it, I'm not complaining. I don't consider this 'getting on with my life', it's a sort of weird half life but if it's what's needed for the time being from me and my family as healthy individuals to help stop the spread of the virus, fine. My kids are too young to demand to be let out by themselves for which I'm grateful.

I therefore don't really understand why it's considered outrageous by some posters on this thread to suggest that people who are more at risk could take a similar approach, getting their shopping delivered for example to avoid contact in supermarkets but still going out for walks and exercise, in the interests of schools remaining open.

people who are more at risk could take a similar approach, getting their shopping delivered for example to avoid contact in supermarkets but still going out for walks and exercise, in the interests of schools remaining open.

Well everyone who I know who is vulnerable is doing that.

But they've had to send their kids back to school.

So if everyone just carries on as if it's March, their child could easily bring the virus home to them. Since there's no SD in schools.

Anyone who lives with a school aged child is exposed. That's just the reality.

If those children are not to be disadvantaged and are to have equal access to school (without running a heightened risk that they'll bring home a virus to their vulnerable parent/ family member), we need to keep levels of the virus low.

I think minor inconvenience and not being able to go to restaurants and the cinema is worth it to keep schools accessible to ALL children, personally.

@IloveJKRowling I am agreeing with you! I'm happy (well, not happy but prepared) to make all manner of concessions to fun in return for schools for all.