Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Grammar and MN users.

147 replies

coffeeandbiscuittime · 08/09/2020 09:42

I started browsing Mumsnet whilst completing my Master's degree. I have always been concerned about whether my English grammar/language/pronunciation is correct. I am English - north-west so I have an accent, also had a lisp as a child, always got the picked on for this, believed I was rubbish at English, so achieving the Master's is a big deal for me.
There are really interesting debates on important topics on Mumsnet but I find the nastiness of people pulling posters up on grammar really offensive.
We need to accept that Mumsnet is an open forum for people of all walks of life, with different cultures, backgrounds and for some English as a second language. To continue to pick up on posters grammar means that some people will stop posting. This then reduces the variety of opinions and debate then becomes very narrow.
I am ashamed of my fellow Mumsnetters, please accept that not everyone has had the same education/interest in grammar as you, but their opinions are still valid.

OP posts:
RozHuntleysStump · 09/09/2020 02:28

Even my severely autistic son has good grammar and punctuation. Why is it so hard?

I don’t even read posts that are poorly written. I just skip to the next one. Yes I’m probably a bitch.

PersephonePromotesEquanimity · 09/09/2020 02:29

What if someone comes along and says 'I've filled in alot of job applications but never get any replys'? It would be downright cruel not to correct them. Sometimes people need to know.

This.

Morgendorffer · 09/09/2020 02:34

Grammar snobbery in informal settings is classist and ableist. If you genuinely don't understand a poorly written post, that's one thing, but needlessly getting your virtual red pen out is poor behavior.

If bad spelling and grammar offends you so much that you simply cannot help but pull someone up over an error, you should probably consider counseling.

Onehotmess · 09/09/2020 02:40

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

"Could/Would/Should/Must OF", "Loose/lose", "too/to/two", and people who clearly have no idea how to use apostrophes appropriately but just go ahead and throw them in any word ending with an "s" anyway. All of it drives me absolutely potty to the point whereby I just instantaneously skip over any post or close any thread where it's egregious.

Apostrophising plurals and real names for crying out loud? Seriously? You'd be forgiven for thinking they don't actually teach English grammar to native English speakers any more. It's understandable for people who are not native English speakers or were not formally educated in English, but those are a tiny minority.

I couldn't care less if people think it's rude for pointing it out. In my opinion it's offensive to proceed without the slightest regard for the poor people attempting to read your drivel. It's not difficult to proof read your post or give a few seconds thought to what you are actually typing. It's the height of laziness. So contrary to earlier claims, no, it doesn't get the point across regardless, it causes people to close your thread and disregard any cogent point you might actually be making.

Wow, you really like the sound of your own typing. If you read that back I don’t think ‘yeah, I sound like a tool’ then there is no hope for you.
alexdgr8 · 09/09/2020 02:45

perhaps we should have a grammar test before people can vote, as they are obviously inferior beings, not worthy of grown-up discourse or decisions.

PersephonePromotesEquanimity · 09/09/2020 02:53

not worthy of grown-up discourse or decisions.

It's what the Tories rely on ...

I spy, with my little eye, something beginning with Br.... ...

Morgendorffer · 09/09/2020 03:03

Worth adding that my counseling comment wasn't facetious - there's evidence that compulsive grammar correctors are suffering from a type of OCD.

I wouldn't be surprised to see certain posters in this thread be duly diagnosed.

jessstan2 · 09/09/2020 03:49

It wouldn't bother me either.

The problem is, certain grammatical errors are pointed out again and again - but people still do them. Most people would only need to be told once.

I have seen posts, even an opening post, not only starting with, 'So', but umpteen sentences starting that way; sometimes it's, "Ok,so...".

Then there is the 'could'couldn't-would/wouldn't of' instead of 'have', and 'bored of' instead of 'by' or 'with'.
Endless 'gots', eg, "I got given..."; surely we were all taught that 'got' is a word to be used very sparingly?

It is irritating.

I would have thought that posting on a forum would encourage people to write grammatically; there is also something called 'Grammarly' (I think), an advert for which I have seen pop up in various places. Why not avail oneself of that? I would.

Spelling is something else. I don't know why but words often do come out wrongly on this forum which could be due to the software; it is often mentioned.

Regarding someone for whom English is a foreign language, that is quite different. Heaven help any of us who try to write in school French.

nachthexe · 09/09/2020 04:10

I quite like ‘So...’ It’s a bit ‘in media res’ and I appreciate intentionality. Convention on a chat forum can get tae fuck.
I miss cdo and scottishmummy’s creepy wee brackets.

Bloodybridget · 09/09/2020 05:39

Appalling spelling and grammar are what irritate me most about MN. Actually, it's very rare for people to comment on it. So YABU.

missmouse101 · 09/09/2020 06:37

The your/you're shit I see on a daily basis, is excruciating and should have been learnt in primary school.

coffeeandbiscuittime · 09/09/2020 06:41

No I am not a troll.

I ask friends to help if I need work checking and use grammarly ( but not on my phone). I was brought up by an English teacher mother who pulled me up constantly about grammar/ pronunciation/ English in general including my accent and lisp- so it all rolled into one. I now hate grammar and apostrophes especially ('🤬'🤣).

With regards to being sanctimonious, I posted this as I was reading a discussion about Covid, instead of discussing the article in question posters were needlessly commenting and being offensive to the OP for her use of language and grammar. Some were really horrible and bitchy. This I have noted on other threads as well.

If they had kept to the topic it could have been informative and enjoyable instead it made me realise what bitchiness there is behind anonymity. Reading some of the posts on MN with regards grammar does make me feel ashamed of people as there is no need in life generally to be nasty.

Thanks to all who have posted.

OP posts:
TheSeedsOfADream · 09/09/2020 13:39

There's nothing wrong with "bored of". Or the use of "get". (Actually, because "get" has so many meanings, it's high up on the Cambridge Corpora lists as informal, yet advanced, usage)

Xenia · 09/09/2020 13:45

It depends on the context. If you want a job which requires good written English and you put bored or or use get in written English you will be likely to be called for an interview. If you are doing my son's job (van driver) it will not matter.

I never see it as kind to point out poor written English on MN or elsewhere but people do need to know for jobs. I was sent a CV by a young lawyer with very poor exam results the other day and I found about 50 errors on 3 pages of her CV. I did not point a single one out to her and just said best of luck but may be I should have helped her?

HandfulofDust · 09/09/2020 13:54

I have certain grammar niggles that annoy me (should of) being one. I wouldn't dream of pointing them out though and I sometimes make daft mistakes too when posting (e.g. you're instead of your when I know perfectly well which to use). It's so patronising and obnoxious to call people out on spag errors. This isn't a professional environment and no one asked you for a grammar lesson.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 09/09/2020 14:31

The real joke of course is when people complain that for instance "So at the begging of a sentence is just Wrong" and don't seem aware that there are sentences in which it is entirely reasonable and correct to start with "So".

An example would be in a reply: "So you are saying that so at the beginning of a sentence is always wrong?"

I am never sure what the reason is for a comma after the "So", though, because I can't see why it is needed.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 09/09/2020 14:32

Damn spellcheck: "beginning", not "begging"! Spellchecks are quite a usual reason for words to be completely wrong.

AryaStarkWolf · 09/09/2020 14:40

@nachthexe

I quite like ‘So...’ It’s a bit ‘in media res’ and I appreciate intentionality. Convention on a chat forum can get tae fuck. I miss cdo and scottishmummy’s creepy wee brackets.
Gives people personality on a forum imo Also I like to end sentences with "so" it's how I speak in r/l so.........

Wow, you really like the sound of your own typing. If you read that back I don’t think ‘yeah, I sound like a tool’ then there is no hope for you.

Grin
Graphista · 09/09/2020 16:58

I’m an English grad myself and certainly notice errors my brain is wired that way.

However, unless it’s the topic of the thread or a poster is claiming spag higher ground when their own is shit I don’t comment.

I have many very intelligent, including well educated to phd level and beyond friends and family who struggle with spag for various reasons, some its learning disabilities (not just dyslexia! There are others), some it’s eyesight issues with typing/reading, some English is not their first language (and I generally find they tend to speak/write English a damn sight better than many Brits manage with other languages! We’re pretty appalling on this actually) their opinions and ideas are just as valid.

I make plenty of typos and errors myself too. No edit function on mn either and I often find a post I’ve written correctly there’s words changed from when I wrote to when it posts! Don’t know if that’s my phone (which does do some weird and wonderful autocorrects at times) or the mn app.

I also struggle with eyesight even with glasses and I also sometimes post when tired or stressed and concentration isn’t great.

I think it’s especially out of order when spag crap is brought up on threads where the op is clearly in some kind of distress!

In my opinion that should be deletion and possibly ban worthy.

I’ve seen people getting all spag high and mighty on threads about miscarriage, domestic violence, ops just found out partner cheated etc I mean seriously! Time and a place!

It’s extremely rare a post is so bad it’s unreadable without a little thought and common sense applied, the few that are generally tend to turn out to be drunken/anaesthetised posters or a young child has been messing with phone/tablet

Also mn is not an English exam! It’s sm people are usually typing quickly and more occupied with the topic they’re posting about.

And yes I’m sure there’s errors in this post I only got 2 hours sleep last night and had a busy day and one eye is giving me grief! So what!

It has been my experience in real life that the more highly educated someone is, the less likely they are to do this that’s been my experience too

and the true English language will be lost. this is such an amusing error!

As a linguistics grad I can assure you the English language - including its spelling and grammar - evolves constantly! All languages do, what’s REALLY interesting about the English language is that it doesn’t really exist! There are SO many loan words, borrowed grammar rules etc that it’s really a very “mixed breed” of a language. This is of course mainly due to our colonial past but even now we are constantly adding, and losing words and usage. It’s fascinating to me. We don’t still speak or write as shakespeare or Chaucer or many English monarchs did now.

American English is closer in many ways to historic English.

It’s also in use in many non Uk countries in various forms that can seem very odd to Uk speakers and writers

There is no “true” English language at all.

now flame me because, horror, of horrors i never use capitals on here I’ve noticed posts of mine ending up with errant capitals in the middle of words! So annoying

I must admit though one that I find particularly grating but don’t comment on - and I have seen it several times on here is “his” when they mean “he’s”

Often the “corrections” are wrong too.

To be honest most of the time when I see it happen it’s because the poster correcting is pissed off they’re losing a completely unrelated argument and they’re just lashing out!

@emeraldshamrock - I once had a poster arguing/disagreeing with me make a ridiculous post about what would I know about the topic (iirc it was about benefits or poverty or budgeting or something like that) as I was clearly a privileged middle class Londoner! I’m a working class disabled single mum and Glaswegian who’s been on benefits in one form or another (mostly too ups as I was in work) for almost 20 years now. And no she hadn’t confused me with someone else as she quoted me several times! Someone else who was familiar with my posts and circumstances corrected them and they flounced! Bizarre!

From my years on mn now (anyone know how to check how long we’ve been here? I can’t remember and I’d love to know) I’ve become aware of quite a few other working class, Scots - a fair few fellow weegies, disabled and/or on benefits mners we’re certainly not in the minority

@magmell I agree that class etc is generally irrelevant when it comes to language proficiency

No.....everybody who speaks English has an accent. Scouse, Geordie, Essex, RP, posh Southern, Nigerian, whatever...we all speak with an accent. haha I agree

The problem with mine is it’s very confused geographically! I have a lot of fun challenging people to guess where I’m from and I’ve had guesses as whacky as Australian and South African! I’m an army brat so it’s a mix of Glaswegian, northern Scots, welsh, Yorkshire and south west England as I’ve lived in all those places while my accent was developing so it’s a real mish mash! And that’s before we get into slang!

I LOVE all the different accents and found the history of how they developed utterly enthralling, I’d love to study that more, I’m also nerdily interested in place names.

@ViciousJackdaw but that example (job applications) is one where I would consider it on topic and helpful to point the poster in the right direction

I’ve been in the position of reading applications by educated people and I’ve seen some crackers but they weren’t applying for English teaching roles so 🤷‍♀️

@morgendorffer - interesting argument. I have dx ocd but mainly of the germophobic type although I do also do lots of counting and checking. I can see how it could become an ocd behaviour though

Graphista · 09/09/2020 17:02

Top ups! And I'm sure I've missed a few too and some of those paragraphs are a bit word spaghetti sorry

Plussizejumpsuit · 09/09/2020 17:09

People just want something to feel superior about. It is quite sad. I recognise most people are writing on their phone while doing other things. You are therfore unlikely to give a post the same consideration you would a work email. I also strongly feel as a dyslexic person that spelling and grammar do not indicate intelligence. I tend to not actually make many spelling and grammar mistakes and did well at uni ect. But it was due to to tons of intervention which I'm fully aware not everyone has access to or headspace for, because it to a lot and I mean a lot of additional work. So I just see people who pick up on this type of thing as nasty bullies.

jessstan2 · 09/09/2020 17:09

It's quite true that 'American English' is more accurate than ours. 'Gotten' and 'gifted' are examples; they grate but they are not wrong.

As for starting a sentence with 'So' (forgetting about 'OK so' for now), it may be said but surely not written; especially not several times in one post.

'Of' instead of 'have' is what 'gets' to me most of all.

Plussizejumpsuit · 09/09/2020 17:10

I once saw someone say they couldn't understand a post due to poor grammar when an op had been raped. Think if I'd been raped I might not be doing very well with my grammar.

ToastyCrumpet · 09/09/2020 17:13

There’s a difference between regional variations and plain bad grammar. If I’m honest, sometimes I cringe a bit at people’s bad grammar and spelling BUT I wouldn’t dream of telling them so. Who wants that?

HepzibahGreen · 09/09/2020 17:20

It is not at all "classist" to prefer good grammar. I know mine is not perfect, but my Dad was very working class and had excellent grammar. In fact most older people I know write with perfect grammar and a good vocabulary, even if they have a thick accent or very little education. It is very arrogant to assume that a post written in good English is by a middle class Londoner!
I think bad grammar is really down to younger people no longer reading books! I read constantly as a child and sort of absorbed decent-ish grammar and spelling, but the youngsters only seem to read stuff on the internet, much of which is itself poorly written