What can you do about parents who won't vaccinate

[mirandatempest]

I've discovered that three of my friends have not vaccinated their children. I am normally very live and let live but this has really upset and bothered me. I've challenged them all but very gently as I
am useless at confrontation but can these friendships survive? I feel so angry.

@BertieBotts

I would class that as medical reasons rather than anti-vaxx. To me, anti-vaxx are the people who don't get vaccines for reasons like "they give you autism" or "its poison" or "your immune system alone is enough" or anything related to a conspiracy theory, that sort of thing.

Then you are ignorant of the reasons many people are hesitant to vaccinate. The vast majority that I've come across have not made a snap decision based on "autism" but have considered the risks and benefits and decided they are happier with the risk of disease.

I think a lot of them are working on false information, unfortunately, but I do respect their decision and their right to make that decision based on whatever evidence they personally trust.

I personally think vaccines are the lower risk but I know not everyone does. It's also not objective - you're not comparing the same kind of risk and therefore people may come to different conclusions. I'm not comfortable with rules being made to try and force people to vaccinate, for this reason. However although I live in a country where this happens (not UK) I don't feel strongly enough about it to challenge it, I just don't like it.

Possibly it would be useful to have risk management and comparison taught in schools? Most people have an extremely poor understanding of it and this probably contributes to strong feelings about vaccination either way.

BertieBotts spot on! I live in Australia where it's practically illegal not to be vaccinated - bloody rules and massive fines for everything and anything here. I disagree with mandatory vaccination as proposed by some for Covid and am with your arguments entirely. My children are vaccinated (from when in UK) but who am I to say I was 100% right to have done so? It is not black and white. The self righteousness of anti anti vaxers is sickening!

The 'self-righteousness' comes from information rooted in science vs information derived from someone on the Internet. I find it really hard to be respectful of people who think science/expertise/education is as valid as information from someone who reads forums online. It simply isn't.

My anti-vaxxer former friend keeps posting the source of her views. So I looked into him. It turns out he is also a climate change denier, rants about Bill Gates, etc etc. I am pretty sure my friend believes in climate change (although, maybe she has changed on that too... who knows). So why would she think someone who has no rational objective view on climate change is a rational person to listen to when it comes to vaccinations...?

So yes, I'm afraid I do think she's a bit stupid.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime. All I meant is that she’s not generally daft about things, can be v. rational in other areas of her life. That’s why I find it so strange. You’re right that’s it’s probably visceral fear of damaging her children...even though catching a disease like polio or infertility due to mumps would be far more damaging.

My children are vaccinated (from when in UK) but who am I to say I was 100% right to have done so?

Evidence based science.

The very reason vaccines exist is to counteract the harm done by those diseases in the days before vaccines.

I do nothing because I don't know the medical details of my friends children other than what I need to know when they are in my care. And honestly I don't know if any of them have been vaccinated or not, never talked about it. Ours are all mainly grown up and missed the various changes.

Oh tell a lie, we are talking about the covid one if it's ever released. Will be in the queue, somewhere at the end of it.

The very reason vaccines exist is to counteract the harm done by those diseases in the days before vaccines.

^This 100%. I think the issue is that younger people don't have any idea what life was like pre vaccines. When I was a child in the 1970s, children regularly caught measles and mumps and were very ill. Smallpox was still around; it was completely erased in 1980 as a result of mass vaccination.

So I don't understand why a parent wouldn't want to protect their children from these illnesses by getting them vaccinated.

I don't think I would have much in common with an anti-vaxxer in terms of outlook on life so would happily let my association with them fade.

I have never asked any friend if their kids are vaccinated...cannot imagine it coming up. I am not bothered either way. Mine are although i will be very reluctant to vaccinate against Covid at this stage...

Ew, you avoid them. Think of this as your warning. I wish I’d know the germ bag at playgroup wasn’t vaccinated - he turned up with measles and it caused untold problems for the babies.

The mother didn’t give two shits that she’d affected 30 other children. No one would stand next to her again so she never came back. Good riddance.

OP, what are you looking to gain from this thread? Validate your own opinions on the subject? If you can’t stand differing opinions, cancel those friends from your life. Only be friends with people that have the same views as you.

@canigooutyet

I wouldn't ever ask my friends whether they've vaccinated their children. But this is about vocal anti-vaxxers, who announce all over Facebook what they believe. I would find it difficult to be friends with people like that.

I haven't had to think about this, as, thankfully, I don't have friends who refuse to vaccinate their children (as far as I know).

I couldn’t be friends with them anymore tbh.
My microbiology lecturer at uni showed us this graph and I think it is so important.

@Kinny14

How is it affecting you? If your kids are vaccinated you’ve nothing to worry about. Everyone has their reasons for doing things in life, calling them stupid etc is quiet sad really. Nobody knows why people decide to do what they do but I’ll respect their decision

It affects OP because she's entitled to reflect on whether she still wants to be friends with people who are this hard of thinking.

I can't help wondering whether people really want to get TB because they don't want to be vaccinated against it. Or whether they would have courted smallpox before vaccination wiped it out. Diphtheria? Hmm, not something I would choose to have (and die of).

I suspect that people who make not doing anything to prevent diseases the hill they would die on, have never actually had anything to do with a real case of the diseases they want to die of. Or don't care if other people die of.

Besides, Trump is an anti-vaxxer, which makes it an excellent thing to avoid as far as I am concerned.

-- And that reasoning is at least as logical as anything I have heard propounded against vaccines by anyone who does not have good medical reasons for them not to be used in an individual case.

@loulouljh

I have never asked any friend if their kids are vaccinated...cannot imagine it coming up. I am not bothered either way. Mine are although i will be very reluctant to vaccinate against Covid at this stage...

Rabid anti-vaxxers tend to make sure that all their friends know about it, not least so they can tell them off for putting this dreadful stuff into their children's bodies.

"Only be friends with people that have the same views as you."
My friends and I have a range of views on so many different issues. But what we have in common is that we are not dumb-ass anti vaxxers.

On balance vaccines have prevented far more harm than they cause, and I am generally pro-vaccine. It is also important that people have a right to bodily autonomy and consent. Not that anti-vaxxers are making well informed decisions but they do have the right to those choices.

Wakfield was mentioned at the appointment when DS1 (8) was diagnosed with autism... DS partly clinched the diagnosis and won a place in the consultants heart when he randomly piped up rather passionately, "I'd take that report, fold it into a paper airplane and fly it into the bin!"

I had to take minor extra precautions with DS1's vaccinations due to allergies, and I do tend to accept what is on offer. I cam understand more caution around Covid 19 due to the speed of development.

Anti-vaxxers tend to be very vociferous about it so I'd probably quietly retreat from that type of hectoring personality anyway, not so much about a personal choice of vaccinating or not.

I don’t think I could remain friends with people who are so irresponsible and foolish. I’d definitely keep my baby away from theirs.

People pointing out that you don,t get tetanus from others missed the point. The point being a lot of adults are not fuly up to date.
I consider each vaccine by it,s own merits. My child has had seazures after having vaccines. she is older now but I am still courtious.

I tend to find anti vaxxers of lower intelligence so have no interest in fostering a friendship tbh.

To those PP saying that they don't understand why people would avoid being friends with or talking to anti-vaxxers: in my view, it really is to show the level of my disgust at their choices. I would do the same with anyone who expressed abhorrent views of a different nature, e.g. sexist or racist beliefs. Whilst I feel sorry for the kids if they are routinely excluded, that is a consequence of their parents' choices, not mine.

I have not had chicken pox and am currently pregnant. A colleague developed shingles, which gave me just a slight taste of how vulnerable we are if we don't have protection against communicable diseases. Why anyone would choose that is beyond me.

Then you are very misled1FootInTheRave, Dr Andrew wakefield is very intelligent thats why he became a doctor.

June2007, you are hilarious.

Dr Andrew wakefield is very intelligent thats why he became a doctor.

Didn't stop him being a huge liar with questionable ethics though, did it?