What can you do about parents who won't vaccinate

[mirandatempest]

I've discovered that three of my friends have not vaccinated their children. I am normally very live and let live but this has really upset and bothered me. I've challenged them all but very gently as I
am useless at confrontation but can these friendships survive? I feel so angry.

Parents having a genuine worry that something could damage their child and avoiding it doesn’t seem like a good reason not to be friends to me. They aren’t making the choice they do because they don’t care about other people, they’re making their choice because as good parents, they do what they genuinely think is best for their children, like we should all do.

Thats a bit arse about face though, worried they might damage their kids through a vaccine that is proven to protect their kids from things far worse than they are worrying about, which is why these illnesses are returning, when we were once free from them.

You could just talk to them and find their reasons and choices not to give consent to vaccinate?
I learnt some interesting information from a friend who chose not to consent for MMR but to give them in separate vaccinations.
She said that getting mumps as a child used to be pretty common before the vaccine and gave people life immunity but now we give the vaccine, people are not covered (it runs out after 10 years) and getting it as late teen/adult.
She explained lots of people get mumps in university and that's when it causes infertility because it's after puberty.
Interesting alternative thoughts that I never even questioned when I vaccinated my children.

It wouldn't be your business were it not for the fact that we're talking about communicable diseases, so that's a nonsense for a start.
People who won't vaccinate are basing that decision on absolute pseudoscience. That tells me they're not capable of critical thinking, which in turn tells me we're unlikely to be chums. So in answer to your question - do nothing except steer clear.

Depends on their reasons. I still need to organise an mmr for myself (I'm 43). I had 1 childhood vaccination, my temperature went through the roof and I had the first of many convulsions. My mum was told not to give me any more vaccinations and I went on epilim.

I didn't have any vaccinations until I was old enough to consent myself (TB at school, tetanus etc). Then when I got pregnant I had the recommended vaccinations but when it came to vaccinating the children, both times I was told that they would be more likely to have convulsions like I did and that I didn't have to do it/could spread the schedule out by 2 different health visitors. Instead I discussed with Dr Sil, realised I was still pissed with my mum for making me tell my pregnant neighbour I'd just had rubella and had them both vaccinated but it would have been easy to go the other way.

Parents having a genuine worry that something could damage their child and avoiding it doesn’t seem like a good reason not to be friends to me. They aren’t making the choice they do because they don’t care about other people, they’re making their choice because as good parents, they do what they genuinely think is best for their children, like we should all do.

Well, seatbelts can cause damage. Sure, the risk of an accident us know but the potential consequences are catastrophic. Would you say parents who refuse to allow their children to wear seatbelts are good parents who are genuinely doing the best for their children? And that's forgetting the risk to others when people don't vaccinate their children. Gambling with your children's health and potentially life is not being a good parent at all. It is, in fact, the opposite.

*risk of an accident is low

Vaccinate yours against everything, mine has had chicken pox vaccine too.
There’s a child minder that I know of that refuses to vaccinate her children, I think it’s incredibly risky and unless there are medical issues I don’t understand the logic.

I'd stay away from them even when yours do have their vaccinations. I think society needs to send a strong message to these types that they are foolish, dangerous and need to keep away from the general public.

@AmICrazyorWhat2

My experience with an anti-vaxxer friend is that as soon as her eldest DD turned 18, she got all her vaccinations. Her second DD (16) has told my DD that she intends to do the same.

So their own children disagree with them!
It makes me hopeful that this movement will eventually die out.

Yes. I think so to. In the academic hospital where I worked all new students were screened and given the chance to update their vaccinations where necessary to protect the vulnerable. Most happily then took the vaccinations. The few that didn't weren't anti-vaxxers but followed strict religions and fully believed in gods will. There weren't many of them, most took the vaccinations.

I think that we should have seperate schools and nurseries for vaccinated and unvaccinated children. It's not fair to be a danger to vulnerable children because of some fake news.

Cut off the friendship, keep your distance and let them know it’s because they’re endangering their own children and everyone else’s around them.

I'd like to present a question because I'd love to know what other people think. For those of you who would not tolerate friends who'd made the decision not to vaccinate their children, would you feel differently about this situation: parents who had vaccinated their child and due to a severe (and admittedly extremely rare) reaction, chose not to vaccinate their subsequent children?

For purposes of clarity, this is not me, but someone I know. My personal opinion is that the risks of not vaccinating far outweigh any possible risks of the vaccinations themselves, so I choose to have them for my children.

would you feel differently about this situation: parents who had vaccinated their child and due to a severe (and admittedly extremely rare) reaction, chose not to vaccinate their subsequent children?

Somethingsnappy No, I would not feel differently. I’d think they were letting their anxiety and paranoia after a bad experience endanger others.

If you dont want to be friends with them then dont. But it's their decision to make, whether you agree or not, they're making a decision that they think is in the best interest of their child.
If you want to stay friends with them then stop bringing it up.

would you feel differently about this situation: parents who had vaccinated their child and due to a severe (and admittedly extremely rare) reaction, chose not to vaccinate their subsequent children?

While I understand why they'd be worried, it would depend on the medical aadvice and whether that reaction was random or whether it may have a genetic link. I have a child who had an allergic reaction to a vaccine - covered head to toe in livid red, painful welts, swelling, wheezing, itching. It was a very unpleasant few days and during the initial moments was scary. My other DC have had, and will continue to have, their scheduled vaccinations as well as annual flu vaccinations. The affected DC will have other vaccinations under advised of a paediatrician who will help us to decide if the risk of reaction is less than the risk of the disease being vaccinated against, we've already been told that the answer will almost certainly be that vaccination is the lower risk option, they will also have future scheduled vaccines given in hospital at paediatrics as the next time they react it could be more severe. For all it was scary and its worrying moving forwards, it has not swayed us from the importance of vaccination.

But it's their decision to make, whether you agree or not, they're making a decision that they think is in the best interest of their child.

Nottherealslimshady That’s the thing, it shouldn’t be their decision to make because they’re not making it in the best interests of their child. It should be illegal to refuse to vaccinate your child(ren).

People who choose not to vaccinate because of the risk to their child, and don't consider the risk to other children and people in their community, are selfish and irresponsible.

I'd withdraw from the friendship.

@OrangeJoos

decided they are happier with the risk of disease

Yeah, the risk to who? Themselves or that poor immunocompromised child who actually can't be vaccinated.

The thing that really gets me annoyed with anti-vaxxers is that they don't seem to get that they are literally relying on other people doing the thing they refuse to do in order to keep their children safe. If everyone took their stance, well we'd be pretty screwed wouldn't we. The only reason it's even possible most of the time for someone to weigh up and be 'happier with the risk of disease' is because other people are mostly vaccinated against it making your child's chance of contracting it lower.

This is an issue and one that I wish was talked about more. It's one thing to be comfortable with a risk to your own kids but the risk of passing something on to a vulnerable person, likely before you were aware your child is even ill is one most people don't consider I think.

And yes I prefer the term vaccine sceptic /hesitant because I think it reflects the motivation better. Antivax is more of a concentrated effort to create mistrust in vaccines/ "mainstream" medicine or indeed government in general, which tends to come from certain alternative health providers and/or people seeking to manipulate usually for political gain.

@mirandatempest

I've discovered that three of my friends have not vaccinated their children. I am normally very live and let live but this has really upset and bothered me. I've challenged them all but very gently as I am useless at confrontation but can these friendships survive? I feel so angry.

What do you do about adults that have not vaccinated? I expect there are far more unvaccinated adults around than children as vaccination was only routine for things like polio when a lot of the now adult population were children. My doctor has never mentioned or suggested o get any of the vaccinations that are routinely offered to parents these days.

I think get your own children vaccinated if you can, EMH the friendship if you want, but it is not your place to “confront” the parents.

but the risk of passing something on to a vulnerable person, likely before you were aware your child is even ill is one most people don't consider I think.

Definitely. My mum sent me to school with both chickenpox and rubella because I wasn't "ill". I had a few spots which were excused as midge bites (chickenpox) and puberty (rubella). With the chickenpox, we only found out when everyone I'd been in contact with turned out to have chickenpox and the rubella was diagnosed by a military doctor after a pe related incident (school was on an army base). If I'd been paying more attention, I wouldn't have fallen off the ropes and wouldn't have known I had it.

Given how people are currently behaving though, I don't think many people would risk their on children for strangers. I vaccinated dc1 against chicken pox because my df was in remission from lung cancer. Df is now dead and dc2 hasn't been vaccinated against it. It's on the list as is my own mmr but it's not as high a priority as it was when my df was at risk.

@AmICrazyorWhat2

My experience with an anti-vaxxer friend is that as soon as her eldest DD turned 18, she got all her vaccinations. Her second DD (16) has told my DD that she intends to do the same.

So their own children disagree with them!
It makes me hopeful that this movement will eventually die out.

That's good to hear

They wouldnt be coming near my kids, simples. If I know someone doesnt vaccinate, they aren't welcome in my home.

Nothing, they have the right to decline as parents and the children will grow up to have the choice to have them if they wish, as adults. Having choice on this matter is a right, whether you or I agree, or not. Not your business.

Given how people are currently behaving though, I don't think many people would risk their on children for strangers. I vaccinated dc1 against chicken pox because my df was in remission from lung cancer. Df is now dead and dc2 hasn't been vaccinated against it. It's on the list as is my own mmr but it's not as high a priority as it was when my df was at risk.

How can you be absolutely sure that you won’t come into contact with someone else who is similarly vulnerable as your DF was in the meantime?

In the US I believe that children are not allowed to attend state schools unless they’ve had all their jabs.
A pity we don’t have the same rule here - genuine medical reasons exempt of course.

It’s absolutely nothing to do with you. Mind your own business and get on with your own life.