to ask what people find painful about ghosting?

[CoffeeAndWhisky]

Just had a conversation with DH about this yesterday and realised I find it quite difficult to understand why people feel hurt by it. My logic has always been...

... either we didn't get on as well as I thought, in which case it is a shame but a conversation won't change that

...something happened in their life that keeps them busy but that they don't want to share with me, in which case they don't owe me an explanation

... we have grown apart and the 'ghoster' doesn't feel it is worth the time and effort to re-build the friendship/relationship, which is fair enough

...I may have said or done something that made them do it - in that case, I retrace my steps and if I can't find anything unreasonable, it is their loss. If I did fuck up, I apologise and take it from there.

Don't get me wrong, I have never ghosted anyone and I have not really been ghosted much either.

The reason it came up between me and DH was that our single-household bubble friend was ghosted by a friend she met at the beginning of this year and was in tears about it. Obviously, we tried to help her work through this but when we talked about it more generally after she left, DH mentioned that he is still surprised by how little I care on the rare occasion that someone ghosts me (naturally, I did not say anything like 'no big deal' to our friend). However, he also couldn't really explain why/what he finds hurtful about these situations - so I guess my question really is, why do some people find ghosting hurtful?

YABU = I'd feel hurt if someone ghosted me
YANBU = I wouldn't feel hurt if someone ghosted me.

The way you describe, over time and naturally is fine and doesn't bother me in the slightest. Suddenly, without warning when it's someone very close to you though hurts. My best friend did it to me and yes I cried over it a lot because I missed her, because she's obviously not the person I thought to treat me like that. I still don't know why and I humiliated myself by sending her messages and carrying on as normal when she had told everyone except for me that she wanted nothing to do with me. This dragged on for months because nobody told me and I assumed she was just busy as she had a lot going on.

I'm still upset by it and I still miss her, she was my best friend so I can't just click my fingers and get over it.

A quick question though, to those of you who say they would just like to know why they were ghosted, or who feel it is awful because they don't know if/what they did wrong - how do you think that last conversation would go?

I don't think a conversation would necessarily be a good idea at this point because there's nothing to recover. If she had said why at the time and I'd done something wrong I would have tried to make amends because the idea of hurting someone I was so close to would be awful. After this amount of time yes I'd still like to know but there's no point to a conversation. Would still appreciate a message explaining why, she could block me then if she's not interested in a reply (I probably wouldn't send one anyway).

But yes, if I'm an awful human being I don't want to be written off as unworthy of friendship, if there's something I'm doing very wrong give me the chance to fix it or not be so awful to the next friend. As it is I'll never know or grow, if I was terrible then I'm still terrible.

My ex ghosted me. Its painful. For one its the waiting around for a reply to your message that never comes. Then the worry of has something happened. Then seeing they have been online but havent responded to you. Then days go by and you realise someone you trusted doesnt care about you and your feelings like they had pretended to. Its a betrayal. Its lack of closure. It takes one minute to write a text saying your feelings have changed and its not working out anymore so its over. Its waiting around for ages not knowing if they will come back with an explanation.

I think the extent to which you find it painful depends on your life stage. I had a close childhood friend who ghosted me completely out of the blue about 10 years ago. Literally from one day to the next she stopped talking me after 15 years of friendship. No arguments, friction about anything and in our last conversation she said how much she was looking forward to meeting up in a few weeks time. It was very upsetting for a while and I spent ages trying to work out what I had done wrong, texting and calling but receiving no response.

Then my life moved on. I had 2 DC and became very busy juggling motherhood and work. I stopped thinking about her really apart from the occasional "I wonder how's she doing". She actually contacted me a while ago. Behaved as if nothing had happened and sent a breezy email asking how my life was etc. I sent her a few sentences back, deleted my account on the social media platform she contacted me on (I was planning to anyway) and hadn't given her another thought until I saw this post today. I didn't ask her why she dropped me as I didn't care. I have so much going on right now, am older and wiser and don't give a shit about draining friendships or have time to entertain drama.

I agree. What purpose is some excruciating upsetting character assassination going to have?!

I have friends I have gently drifted from - that’s life. Usually it’s circumstance rather than anything else. Would rather drift than some painful “well let me roll up my sleeves and tell you how shit you are” conversation.

If they don’t want to be my friend it’s totally their loss tbh.

I suppose it’s a courtesy to be told if someone no longer wants to speak to you or progress things. It’s better than wondering and then slowly realising oh no they cba to let me know.

But it sort of depends on each situation. I don’t need a reason really unless I did something to upset someone and it’s something I’m unaware of and need to look at. I’d prefer the opportunity to make positive changes if needed. But if I hear nothing I assume they did not think much of me to let me know so that’s painful but there’s nothing to do but accept it.

OP - do you lack empathy in other areas of your life as well?

MadCatLady your ex must have been a psychopath, if he was able to cut off his old life like that.

I'm currently being ghosted by 3 people.

One is my ex, whom I was having the most wonderful relationship and sex life with, literally the last time I saw him sorry for tmi but he wanted to have sex so much with me he couldn't any more. Then lockdown intervened and he told me he was self isolating to stay safe, until he phoned up one day to say "Sorry, but I'm seeing someone else now". The blocked me everywhere. Not so much a complete ghosting but effectively a ghosting now, as we had known each other for 15 years and had been really close before getting together. I'm pretty sure its because he feels guilty/wants to move on but it still feels brutal.

Another one is a woman who nearly caused me to have a serious sporting accident because she made a serious mistake. I talked it over with her so she wouldn't feel bad but she later deleted me on social media and I saw her yesterday and she avoided me like the plague. So thats another one avoiding me because she felt guilty.

The final one is a close friend who was part of the friendship group with my ex and her and her boyfriend. Her then boyfriend cheated on her, treated her really badly and left her for another woman, and made her pay him a lot of money he wasn't even owed to get his name off the mortgage. I took her side and was a good friend to her but a year and a half later, she blocked me on FB and dropped all contact. So she would be doing that because she associated me with her former life, but it still hurt me. I wish we had just gradually grown apart but still stayed in occasional contact eg on FB.

As a result, I'm really careful never to block anyone, no matter how annoyed I am. Its a horrible tactic and very reactionary - if you do it to someone, be sure never to change your mind and want them back as a friend, because they will think you are an utter idiot and possibly a sociopath to boot.

Mind you, I still have friends from childhood that I keep in touch with, despite living in other countries. I went to school in The Netherlands and Germany - is it a British thing to ghost people?

No one said anything about a character assassination.

Also this is also a weird mn thing i have noticed on many threads, that either people think its ok to ghost old friends or they do the opposite and send a long scathing email about how they want to end the friendship and never speak again. In reality most people drift apart over time and might get the odd 'hey hows it going' once a year that normal people send a quick reply and then they dont speak again for another year.

@MsTSwift

I agree. What purpose is some excruciating upsetting character assassination going to have?!

I have friends I have gently drifted from - that’s life. Usually it’s circumstance rather than anything else. Would rather drift than some painful “well let me roll up my sleeves and tell you how shit you are” conversation.

If they don’t want to be my friend it’s totally their loss tbh.

Yes, I agree, but I think there's a difference between letting a friendship drift and a full in ghosting, which I actually think is quite rare, except for @IncandescentSilver . I'm not really british originally, but I've lived here most of my life and my mother was English. No, I don't think the blocking and total ghosting is that common...? Or am I just old? I am not on SM as well, so that might be why.

I've blocked one person on WhatsApp in my entire life, (aside from the dubious companies you sometimes get trying to contact me), and don't regret that at all. Never will. She was an absolute cunt to me though, so if she never speaks to me ever again, I will be eternally grateful to the universe! But anyway, yes, one person and I have quite a lot of contacts, some of whom I'm not especially friendly with, so I would say blocking, IME, is rare.

Frankly I am old enough to know my faults if someone doesn’t want to engage with me anymore I respect that but I really don’t want to hear why as I don’t value their opinion. They can sod right off. I have enough friends and a lovely family and extended family so it’s irrelevant to me if someone wants to huff off out of my life. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out love 😁

@MsTSwift

Frankly I am old enough to know my faults if someone doesn’t want to engage with me anymore I respect that but I really don’t want to hear why as I don’t value their opinion. They can sod right off. I have enough friends and a lovely family and extended family so it’s irrelevant to me if someone wants to huff off out of my life. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out love 😁

No, I agree! I would hate being 'broken up with' by friends I am not that close to, as a pp suggested would be a good idea. The "our friendship has run its course" and so on. Very honest and probably very mature of people to have those conversations, but...no, thanks!

I have fallen out with friends though. Not recently, but in my youth when we were all a little more feisty, but it was never a cold, calculated conversation about "no thank you, I no longer wish to continue the friendship please and thank you. Your contract is terminated" type chat. I would find that really unnatural.

It's usually either a "ugh I can't stand you, fuck off" type fall out or a gradual drift apart. Sometimes the former type of fall out might end up in a chat where we apologise but agree not to hang out anymore though. I've had that, but it's never a one sided conversation where I give a critique of the friendship to date and explain why I will not be continuing with said friendship. I can't imagine it at all and would probably laugh later if someone did it to me. But, that's probably immature of me.

A lot of the time it is actually better to walk away

Ghosting is about not even being told that the person is walking away. That's the issue, not necessarily not being told the reasons why.

I was ghosted by whom i thought was the love of my life (both in our 40s). It was AWFUL. He was in europe, i was in Asia and COVID happened. But he just stopped responding. We were planning to move to a country together, i was learning Spanish as he is a widower with small children and he just fucking disappeared. It was the most painful thing that has ever happened to me. I didn't know whether to worry for him, give him space or confront him and so it dragged for about 5 weeks. Then i realised i wasn't blocked and he wasn't dead. Wanker updated his LinkedIn. But that point it was so pathetic i cried with relief that he was alive.

In every other area of my life i am capable, independent, well travelled and wise but that was such an awful time. It was only when my ex husband counselled me about it and pointed out what i need in a functional relationship that i started to get my head around it.

I can still get teary at the thought of him 6 months later. It changed me and my views on trust and love. Currently have someone new and my feelings are very, very compartmentalised.

@CoffeeAndWhisky

Thanks to everyone who has already replied. I'm in zoom limbo, i.e. between meetings, right now, so can't respond to every post.

A quick question though, to those of you who say they would just like to know why they were ghosted, or who feel it is awful because they don't know if/what they did wrong - how do you think that last conversation would go?

Just one more question, do you really think that this would be a constructive last conversation or would it be more likely to be all tears and screaming?

In my case if we had a last conversation she never would have ghosted me

I had what I thought was a friend for many years. Stopped seeing me but kept on saying we must catch up, set dates up and blew me out repeatedly. If she had told me she was too busy with 'insert any lame excuse' a few times i would have got the hint after three times. But there was no closure and I felt like I was left hanging like a dork not knowing why. I did meet up with just after Christmas eventually and realised I cant stand her any more. Growing apart naturally is one thing. Distancing yourself from someone politely ( eg 'I cant right now I'm.so busy with xyz, I will call you, dont call me) or just being honest is all fine.

But saying one thing and meaning something else or just dropping someone with no reasons and ignoring them is shitty and something shitty people do. I bumped into my so called friend a year after she ghosted me. I felt physically sick and desperately tried to avoid her like I had never known her. Who needs that weirdness? Like I say we have since met up and that felt more like closure ( never talked about the ghosting) we just didnt follow that meeting up. So much better as I dont need to hide from her if I see her now. Neither do I need to do more than a polite how are you? How is the family, anyway must dash, my ( insert lame excuse) is calling. I would have been left with fond memories if we had just the Christmas meet up years ago. But I can not think fondly or her ever now. Everything now feels like it all fake and and contrived. Maybe that sounds OTT but it's really horrible. In fact I view all new friends with a degree of suspicion after that.

I mean - you’re telling me of your best friend just disappeared on you - without any explanation you would be ok with it?

I can't imagine not understanding what's bad about ghosting. It's basic empathy.
Ghosting is selfish, cowardly, rude and pathetic. I've had it happen to me only once in my dating years, and have never done it to someone else. A quick 'sorry, but I don't feel a spark and good luck' message really is just basic manners.

@Winederlust

A lot of the time it is actually better to walk away

Ghosting is about not even being told that the person is walking away. That's the issue, not necessarily not being told the reasons why.

But the thing is you know the person has walked away. It's blindingly obvious if someone stops replying to your contacts and blocks you on social media.

I don't think its a dignified or adult or kind thing to do at all and I'm not defending it.

But I think this whole culture of "closure" is quite unhealthy. A lot of the time the reasons relationships or friendships fail is not really rational: its not something you can put down to x or y, its a strange combination of chemistry, circumstance and availability. You often can't get closure because there is no single simple reason why things have ended.

Feeling the need to have these debriefs/offloadings onto people about why the friendship has ended is quite counterproductive: its rarely positive and quite often hurtful.

And sometimes friendships just cool off for a bit due to circumstance because they are too difficult to manage in the moment but can be picked up later. If you have a great tearful debrief/finger pointing it can amplify tensions and people end up saying things that its impossible to walk back from.

@CoffeeAndWhisky

Thanks to everyone who has already replied. I'm in zoom limbo, i.e. between meetings, right now, so can't respond to every post.

A quick question though, to those of you who say they would just like to know why they were ghosted, or who feel it is awful because they don't know if/what they did wrong - how do you think that last conversation would go?

Just one more question, do you really think that this would be a constructive last conversation or would it be more likely to be all tears and screaming?

So you get up tomorrow and text your best friend about Saturday She doesn't reply. Ok she must be busy. You try again and call her. No reply.

Now either she's busy, ghosting you or something is wrong.

You speak to a mutual friend who conforms nothing has happened to her.

You send one last message. You never get a reply.

If you're honestly totally cool with that I'd say there's a lack of emotional investment from you into your friendships.

But the thing is you know the person has walked away. It's blindingly obvious if someone stops replying to your contacts and blocks you on social media. If someone just stops replying tho you don't know of they're ignoring you or dead. If they're on SM lots fine but otherwise how do you know they're not dead in their bath alone

Its probably difficult to say it I found one friend gets defensive. Love catch up soon are her replies but unless I chase it up or drive to her wont happen. All one sided effort. I may just gently let it go without being rude.

SleepingStandingUp

It would depend on what you meant; if a friend blew me out ahead of a planned night out I would be mildly miffed and would want at least an explanation. If a friend didn’t reply to a question about a social plan - if it wasn’t a firm plan where I would be left in the lurch - I genuinely would be fairly relaxed.

I don’t expect to be joined at the hip with my friends or for us all to have totally interlocking social circles or to have to do everything together. Mature, long-standing friendships often accommodate the fact that people don’t always have the same friendship group and can handle a bit of space and allow people the agency to choose sometimes not to run with the pack.

Tbh I would feel a bit stifled by a friendship where I had to “check in” all the time to clear my social calendar,

@lioncitygirl

I mean - you’re telling me of your best friend just disappeared on you - without any explanation you would be ok with it?

Honestly - no. Not because I am not fond of my friends but because I trust them. I'd trust them to get in touch if they want to do so and are emotionally and practically able to. If that is not the case, long-term or short-term, then I accept that and move on.* And as far as I'm aware, they trust me in the same way. I'm, accordingto DH, incredible picky when it comes to friends, so maybe that plays into it - I don't like spending time on superficial friendships and small talk (which is not to say that deep and/or long-standig friendships are save from ghosting).

I have had a close friend ghost me a couple of years ago and extended the same trust to her. She recently got in touch with me again and as it turn out, life was simply a little too much and she had to prioritise some things and people over others. Totally fine by me, I just want her to be happy. I know that she is, from the bottom of her heart, a wonderful person and trust her to do what is right for her. That may or may not involve having me in her life.

To those asking what I'd do if DH just disappeared: Once it is clear he is not 'just' a missing person, I'd transfer all our joint assets into my name and contact every divorce lawyer worth their money to create a conflict of interest and generally would get my ducks in a row. The emotions would hit me eventually but I'm a 'practicalities/damage control first, feelings later' kind of person. I only had and wanted FwB before DH and made it clear if they find someone more serious, to just let me know and move on. They usually did tell me if something developed. I stayed friends with some of them but honestly, even if they didn't sent that last final text, it is pretty obvious why they wouldn't get back to me.

---

*The exception is admittedly if I think someone might be depressed/dealing with other MH issues. Then I'm a little more insistent on checking in on them. Thus far, my gut feeling was always right when it came to distinguishing between 'needs some space' vs 'needs someone who supports them through a difficult time but doesn't want to impose.' I do acknowledge, though, that even just by law of averages I will get that wrong at some point.

thepeopleversuswork but you wouldn't necessarily know straight away would you? A few unanswered texts you might put down to being busy or whatever. It would probably take days or even weeks for the penny to drop, whereas a 'I'm done, don't contact me' is immediate.

Thank you again to everyone who answered my question today- it has been really helpful.

I'm getting the impression there is a small minority who is in the same 'meh, their loss' camp as me but for most, closure really seems quite important. I can't say that I get it on an emotional level and (hopefully!) I will never have to. However, it has really helped me to put myself in other people's shoes, so thank you again for this. I'm really sorry some of you had to go such dramatic situations where someone in a solid relationship just cut you off - that should never happen!

The 'Honestly - no' should be a 'Honestly - yes' Sorry!