Children mustn't see grandparents until vaccine found?

[Witterywoman]

Now that the kids are back at school, SIL has said her kids must isolate from both sets of grandparents in case they give them Covid picked up at school, and this must continue until a vaccine is found. All 4 grandparents are over 70 but healthy, no health conditions to speak of. My parents are particularly upset and don't understand it. I don't get it either and don't intend to stop them seeing my kids.

Are we missing something?

@Friendsoftheearth

1940 infections today, we are just shy of 2000 new infections in one day, we have a long way to go this autumn and winter, anyone not recognising the danger and becoming complacent will be in a shock next month. I am sorry but those that are being flippant probably aren't considering the horrific experience of being in ICU with covid. It is not just any old virus, it is one that means you will have to die alone, in pain surrounded by hazmat suits and wires in the worst possible way.

Exactly. Numbers are rising and not all the kids are back at school yet & many adults are still WFH. - yet people are acting like it's over. 🙇🏻‍♀️ People don't seem to understand the concept of exponential growth OR the fact that you don't only get it from strangers!

Familiarity leads us to feel people we are close to won't 'give it' to us, but the stranger on the bus might.

@Accrossthepond55 agree, also with you @MintyMabel obviously its the SILs ultimate choice to do whatever she wants with her kids, we are talking about whether we think its reasonable or not.

so @MJMG2015 and friedsoftheearth is a full on cuddle indoors visit with alcohol and toilet breaks the same as a socially distant walk in your book? the latter isn't flippant towards covid surely?

@ListeningQuietly

People can catch COVID

• at a restaurant
• at work
• on holiday

They can also die of many many other things

Kids are vectors of disease every winter
there is so much over reaction about COVID

Actually what we are seeing is childish underreaction. As if wishing that the pandemic is over will make it so.

Asymptomatic transmission is real. You don't have to be old and unhealthy to catch it and spread it throughout your community. Any risk you take it upon yourself to decide is "acceptable " you are foisting unilaterally on others.

People need to muster some emotional courage and satisfy themselves with electronic communication for some time to come, for the safety of all. Blathering mindless philosophy such as "any of us could die of anything at any time" to excuse anti-social, selfish choices is beyond thoughtless.

@Friendsoftheearth

1940 infections today, we are just shy of 2000 new infections in one day, we have a long way to go this autumn and winter, anyone not recognising the danger and becoming complacent will be in a shock next month. I am sorry but those that are being flippant probably aren't considering the horrific experience of being in ICU with covid. It is not just any old virus, it is one that means you will have to die alone, in pain surrounded by hazmat suits and wires in the worst possible way.

As I understand the data today while the number of positive tests from people going for tests is rising the number of positive results from random population testing is unchanged.

It's too simplistic to draw valid conclusions simply from the raw number of positive tests

jeez @PerveenMistry we are so careful with our olds I feel really ...hurt actually to be told I'm being selfish and flippant?? I went to see my aged aunt and uncle yesterday coz they are soooo sad and lonely, we were all outside all the time, do u know what I dont want to go into all the precautions we took but you know the drill. we are all trying really hard i think.

I'm mystified by the idea that Covid is magically more "gruesome" than any other way of dying. Give me a straight choice between dying at 75 of Covid & living into my 90s with dementia, incontinence & constant pain (one of my grandmothers - this has been her reality for years now), and guess which one I'd pick.

The GPs are requesting because they think the risk of them catching Covid is small. But it's still a risk. So if the children contract Covid from school, and pass it on to their grandparents and they die, SIL'll probably feel pretty guilty about this (I would anyway).
But if they died in 6 months time from something non covid related (probably just as likely at that age) having not seen their dgc and sorely missing them in that time then SIL will presumably feel equally guilty. Definitely should be up to them to decide how they want to live

SomewhereEast

Totally agree.

DH is in the shielding category. He hadn't seen our GCs properly for 5 months. He isn't missing out anymore. We saw them all last weekend. There may never be a vaccine so it's a risk he is willing to take.

A couple of people have corrected my earlier comment, saying the risks to over 70s is not that high, so I looked up the figures.

Ignoring Covid, if you are 70, your risk of dying within that year is 2%. If you are 79 the risk of dying within a year is 5%.

If you do get Covid aged 70-79 the risk of dying from it is 5% for females and 10% for males (very approx and very different between different countries).

Happy to be corrected as these are not exact and just from googling a bit.

For me, not sure whether I’d conclude this as high risk or not. Even increasing risk of death by 1% seems an awful lot to me, but I guess this view might change with age as your risk of death (from anything) gets bigger the older you get.

Sorry for the morbid statistics.

life The numbers have doubled already, with many people reporting not being able to get a test or having to drive a 100 miles to get one.

Our schools do not even open until next week, universities are not open for a week or two. Of course we can only go by the R rate we have to use some raw measurement. It is the only tools we have for the moment, so I don't see nearly 2000 infections in one day as a positive sign at all, and it will double every week and is a cause for concern among scientists already.

You can live in denial if you want to, that is entirely up to you, but most of us will assess the figures, look at the risk factors of the school environment and choose to keep our most vulnerable members safe by keeping the children away from them for the time being. It is not forever but it is necessary if we want them to get through the winter.

Those that say they have to use gps for childcare are clearly not prioritising the health of those family members. Alternative arrangements should be made until it becomes clearer what the impact of the schools reopening is going to be.

People need to muster some emotional courage and satisfy themselves with electronic communication for some time to come, for the safety of all. Blathering mindless philosophy such as "any of us could die of anything at any time" to excuse anti-social, selfish choices is beyond thoughtless.

Actually I think what people need to do is muster up some emotional courage and realise that life is not risk-free. I'm not saying that an initial lockdown was unwarranted or that measures were not necessary, but if this is going to be with us longer term then we cannot have this weird, artificial society and we certainly can't afford the economic impacts that it will bring. Not for a virus with the fatality rate of covid.

DH is in the shielding category. He hadn't seen our GCs properly for 5 months. He isn't missing out anymore. We saw them all last weekend. There may never be a vaccine so it's a risk he is willing to take.
This

@Chillyourbeans exactly people keep on about when we get a vaccine when it should be if we get a vaccine

@SomewhereEast

I'm mystified by the idea that Covid is magically more "gruesome" than any other way of dying. Give me a straight choice between dying at 75 of Covid & living into my 90s with dementia, incontinence & constant pain (one of my grandmothers - this has been her reality for years now), and guess which one I'd pick.

Well, if the notion of dying after weeks of lying there in pain and fever, gasping for air with tubes shoved down your throat as your lungs turn to mush & leak blood like sieves doesn't bother you, bravo.

The above happens to all ages, if they get the cytokine storm response. It's not just for old folks. And COVID has effect on receptors that make it far more contagious at lower loads and higher in the respiratory tract than common cold & flu virus. You might want to do some scientific reading about the disease.

Give me a straight choice between dying at 75 of Covid & living into my 90s with dementia, incontinence & constant pain (one of my grandmothers - this has been her reality for years now), and guess which one I'd pick.
Hear Hear

got a few old rellies coming over for sunday lunch. going to maintain some distance, and keep them outside if possible, so might not get too much more chance to see them before the weather gets too cold.

Perveen
Well, if the notion of dying after weeks of lying there in pain and fever, gasping for air with tubes shoved down your throat as your lungs turn to mush & leak blood like sieves doesn't bother you, bravo.
Stop being so melodramatic.
People in hospital are not dying of it any more.
SIGNIFICANT numbers of deaths were in nursing homes with no medical intervention at all.
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending21august2020#deaths-registered-by-place-of-occurrence

@justasking111

Well if grandparents have been out and about, enjoyed Rishi deals, shop at supermarkets, generally have got back to normal. If they then catch covid who is to say where they picked it up from.

Many grandparents look after children in term time to help parents out, not sure who else can do it for parents to be honest.

Exactly

@MaxNormal

People need to muster some emotional courage and satisfy themselves with electronic communication for some time to come, for the safety of all. Blathering mindless philosophy such as "any of us could die of anything at any time" to excuse anti-social, selfish choices is beyond thoughtless.

Actually I think what people need to do is muster up some emotional courage and realise that life is not risk-free. I'm not saying that an initial lockdown was unwarranted or that measures were not necessary, but if this is going to be with us longer term then we cannot have this weird, artificial society and we certainly can't afford the economic impacts that it will bring. Not for a virus with the fatality rate of covid.

Except that you don't get to make that decision for others. This is a communicable disease.

It's one think to say "i like to smoke and if i get lung cancer, so be it, but the risk really isn't that great." Crack on.

It's quite another to decide that you'll hop behind a wheel after two bottles of wine because you personally don't believe drunk driving is a menace. And those who object are going to die one way or the other, so what's the big deal if you happen to be what takes them out.

Highly contagious. It's real.

Ive visited my 87 year old grandmother as she wants to see us and was at home alone for weeks and found it unbearable and said she didnt want to live like that , so all of her grandchildren ( we r all adults ) have been visiting and my own children ( teenagers ) but with some caution so no hugging etc , we let my nan make the decision and same with my parents .

[quote ListeningQuietly]Perveen
Well, if the notion of dying after weeks of lying there in pain and fever, gasping for air with tubes shoved down your throat as your lungs turn to mush & leak blood like sieves doesn't bother you, bravo.
Stop being so melodramatic.
People in hospital are not dying of it any more.
SIGNIFICANT numbers of deaths were in nursing homes with no medical intervention at all.
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending21august2020#deaths-registered-by-place-of-occurrence[/quote]

And you think it cannot surge again in fall, eh?

[quote Notfeelinggreattoday]@Chillyourbeans exactly people keep on about when we get a vaccine when it should be if we get a vaccine [/quote]
So therefore some grandparents are going to be permanently kept apart from their families.

Who the hell wants to live like that?

I wear a mask. I socially distance. But I go out for walks, to the supermarket, for lunch, to (allowed) gatherings. Do kerping my DGC away for my protection is pointless.

PerveenMistry you sound very, very anxious. I'm not sure what you've read to make you think it's somehow the worst death in the world, bar none. Or that it's particularly dangerous for younger age groups.