Children mustn't see grandparents until vaccine found?

[Witterywoman]

Now that the kids are back at school, SIL has said her kids must isolate from both sets of grandparents in case they give them Covid picked up at school, and this must continue until a vaccine is found. All 4 grandparents are over 70 but healthy, no health conditions to speak of. My parents are particularly upset and don't understand it. I don't get it either and don't intend to stop them seeing my kids.

Are we missing something?

Oh, I get you bearpad

That’s always a barrel scraper alright.

We won't be hugging anyone old or not. We won't be meeting up with anyone inside old or not. Our risks have gone up drastically with a return to school and work, and the last thing I want to see is a second wave. So you can do what you like, we will be following the rules and being extra careful as we see fit. I am lucky to have dp that feel the same, but we would be doing this regardless.

Fine, carry on.

I took my children to stay with parents for a few days in the summer and they hugged them. I’m comfortable with this decision. I will let my children have playdates if they wish to and invite their classmates to my house too.

I’m not walking the streets hugging anyone else. I’m social distancing and my hands have never been so clean!

If you want to consider me reckless then do.

My step dad's over 70. Without my mum and him to pick kids up from school when dp and I are working I wouldn't have a job. Have been seeing them for months. My mum has other health issues but says she would rather not be here than not see her grandchildren for a year or so.

[quote Friendsoftheearth]I think people are rightly worried about catching the virus and being seriously ill, it is not unreasonable at all, given what has already evolved happened this year.

Even a mild case of covid can leave you with substantial lung damage and other problems, so I don't blame anyone for wanting to protect themselves and loved ones from covid, it is natural and normal!

The vaccine trials are nearly over, and news is extremely positive. Given that we will not have to wait years and years keeping everyone safe in the meantime for now is the best option.

You are welcome to disagree, and continue doing whatever you want in terms of hugging or indoor meets, parties or whatever. Lets hope the impact of that behaviour does not impact the NHS to such a degree that it will be overwhelmed. We can all make our own decisions about what is right for us and our families.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-vaccine-ready-to-be-fast-tracked-before-christmas-dv6p7bk55[/quote]
But they're not worried about catching covid!
They're worried that someone else will catch covid!

It's bloody ridiculous!

@Friendsoftheearth

They’re not children, so you don’t get to decide for them. That’s infantilising

I think you will find they ARE my children.

Guilt is your emotion to manage

Yes and I will manage that by not putting anyone in danger, and being careful thanks.

over riding their desires because you can’t manage your feelings strikes me as pretty selfish actually

My mother is far more afraid of covid than I am, just for what its worth there is no way she would want us to hug her! But even if she did, I wouldn't because at this point in time I can't be sure that we are not infected/asymptomatic and why would I put her at risk for no reason.

I am sorry but you are really projecting on here. People can make up their own minds. Most families have already come to agreements and consensus about what feels right and comfortable to them, this will vary from area to area depending on infection, personal risk, health issues and exposure.

It is not for you to insist we all ignore the advice of SAGE and other experts that are far more informed than you!

If your parents want to shield then that's absolutely fine - I would never argue that they're wrong.

But - I am sorry but you are really projecting on here. People can make up their own minds. Most families have already come to agreements and consensus about what feels right and comfortable to them, this will vary from area to area depending on infection, personal risk, health issues and exposure.

Some of us are arguing that this isn't what's happening. Children are making decisions for their parents, And that's what we have a problem with.

@TheKeatingFive

Pubs and entertainment are not “wants” to the people who work in them and their families. And indeed to the rest of us, including the sainted NHS, because the revenue they bring in there will be no money to treat Covid patients (or anything) , fund treatment or vaccine.

One thing this has taught me is that there are hoards of people out there who don’t understand the absolute basics of economics or how their society works. It’s shocking.

Or just how expensive, complicated and vital good infrastructure is. Just no clue. Think it all runs itself by magic, for free!

So you can do what you like, we will be following the rules and being extra careful as we see fit.

The rules say you can't hug anyone? Gawd, tell that to all those people on Tindr, they've been doing far more than hugging strangers .

Now OP has clarified that SIL's children are teenagers who are perfectly capable of social distancing, I find it even more bizarre that SiL has made a blanket ban. I'd assumed she must have young children who couldn't be trusted not to run up to their GPs and/or the grandparents would want to be sitting and playing with the DC.

GP/Teenage meets are more likely to involve sitting and chatting or the teenager occasionally mumbling something whilst glued to their phone so really odd not to allow social distanced meets - particularly if outside.

Some of us are arguing that this isn't what's happening. Children are making decisions for their parents, And that's what we have a problem with.
What? The person you are talking about isn't a child, she is an adult.

*The massive decrease in people going to doctors in the last six months is having significant negative impacts on cancer diagnoses and outcomes.

————

I have never once understood this point. How does an increase in covid hospitalizations (of the vulnerable and elderly) help people obtain cancer care? It’s the precise opposite. The waiting list is immense and will take years to plough through. The last thing you would surely want is diminishing health care capacity.

If grandparents are saying ‘if I get sick I forfeit all rights to medical treatment’ that’s a different issue entirely. I can’t imagine this is remotely plausible for the majority of people to say.

I can’t take a lot of people in this thread seriously. They’re talking about the preeminence of grandparents needs and wants, the selfishness of OP’s SiL, the crime of ‘prioritising your needs and feelings’ (as though they’re ceaselessly altruistic people who have never once prioritized themselves!)

But this is all a ruse. They say these things, but they’re not really lifelong campaigners for grandparents rights. They just believe the virus is oversold and people need to crack on with things. That’s the underlying belief system that undergirds all this talk.

The problem, as has been pointed out, is that even the most pragmatic of countries - Sweden - which refused to close schools, made it clear that over 70s should not mix with their families indoors. That is the definition of cracking on. Shield the elderly and vulnerable, let the working age move on. Not try to do both.

I have sympathies for people who gave no choice but to use grandparents for childcare, but this isn’t the contention here. Nor will the SIL’s parents be isolated (they’re mixing with the OP and her children).

The problem, as has been pointed out, is that even the most pragmatic of countries - Sweden - which refused to close schools, made it clear that over 70s should not mix with their families indoors.

SIL isn’t saying that though. She’s saying no mixing at all.

But this is all a ruse. They say these things, but they’re not really lifelong campaigners for grandparents rights. They just believe the virus is oversold and people need to crack on with things.

You don’t need to be a ‘lifelong campaigner grandparent rights’ (snort) to say that they should be allowed to determine risk for themselves.

I haven’t seen a single poster on this thread say the virus is oversold.

However we do have to get on with things to some degree, otherwise how do you expect all those public/private services that we rely on to continue?

People seem to think the NHS is funded on thin air and we have fabulously altruistic doctors and nurses who are willing to work for free. And that food magically arrives on their doorstep.

@Mittens030869

I actually think both sides here are being selfish. On the one hand, it is patronising to make assumptions about what is best for someone who has been alive for many years longer than you have. I agree that this is selfish.

OTOH, if you do die of Covid (as unlikely a scenario as that is) your children and grandchildren will be the ones left behind with their guilt, which will be magnified by the grief they're feeling. Another factor at play here is that although, yes there are other things people can die of, Covid patients die alone and their loved ones don't see them face to face again. You only have to watch the interviews on the news to know how harrowing that is for the families left behind.

Another interesting thing I note, normally grandparents are told that they can't insist on grandchildren hugging them. A child should know that it's their choice whether they should consent to be hugged or not. But suddenly this is no longer the case?

We have elderly relatives; my DM and MIL are 81 and 79 respectively and we saw my DH's aunt and uncle yesterday, who my DDs are very close to. We also saw my DM recently. We socially distanced because to us and to them the advice is there for a reason.

It's down to individual families to decide this together. And not everyone feels the same. When we saw my DSis and her family we did exchange hugs. (I had recently tested negative so I knew I was safe.)

The point about hugging is very revealing. Hugs and physical contact for grandparents are now an absolute right apparently. So many established principles on this forum (on children’s rights, parents’ rights to assert their boundaries with in- laws) have been thrown out the window in the quest to ‘crack on’ and move beyond the virus.

If anyone on this thread has advocated forcing children to hug grandparents when they don’t want to, please quote it.

And SIL isn’t talking about hugging. She’s talking about no engagement in real life at all.

@TheKeatingFive

The problem, as has been pointed out, is that even the most pragmatic of countries - Sweden - which refused to close schools, made it clear that over 70s should not mix with their families indoors.

SIL isn’t saying that though. She’s saying no mixing at all.

But this is all a ruse. They say these things, but they’re not really lifelong campaigners for grandparents rights. They just believe the virus is oversold and people need to crack on with things.

You don’t need to be a ‘lifelong campaigner grandparent rights’ (snort) to say that they should be allowed to determine risk for themselves.

I haven’t seen a single poster on this thread say the virus is oversold.

However we do have to get on with things to some degree, otherwise how do you expect all those public/private services that we rely on to continue?

People seem to think the NHS is funded on thin air and we have fabulously altruistic doctors and nurses who are willing to work for free. And that food magically arrives on their doorstep.

We absolutely must get on with supporting the economy and funding health services. Please tell me how the mixing of households supports that objective? There’s a reason why a ban on household gatherings is currently taking place in the north west. It’s the thing most likely to spread the virus AND it is of no economic value.

But then people will turn around and say ‘but we can gather in pubs, restaurants, and our kids can go to school!!! So why can’t we mix as households??!’ That’s what’s happening where I live. People ignore the fact that those other activities are economically fundamental.

@tillytown

Some of us are arguing that this isn't what's happening. Children are making decisions for their parents, And that's what we have a problem with. What? The person you are talking about isn't a child, she is an adult.

The mother in the OP is making decisions for her parents and parents in law.

Please tell me how the mixing of households supports that objective?

People also need reasons to live. For many elderly people, living in isolation until there’s a vaccine is worse than the risks posed by the virus. Mixing of households is not banned for most under the current guidelines.

@Redolent

*The massive decrease in people going to doctors in the last six months is having significant negative impacts on cancer diagnoses and outcomes.

————

I have never once understood this point. How does an increase in covid hospitalizations (of the vulnerable and elderly) help people obtain cancer care? It’s the precise opposite. The waiting list is immense and will take years to plough through. The last thing you would surely want is diminishing health care capacity.

If grandparents are saying ‘if I get sick I forfeit all rights to medical treatment’ that’s a different issue entirely. I can’t imagine this is remotely plausible for the majority of people to say.

That is because you’ve misunderstood what I wrote.

During lockdown people were scared to go to their doctors when they found concerning symptoms. They are now being diagnosed with diseases that have progressed either beyond treatment or will be harder to treat.

This is the problem of focussing all attention on Covid and Covid deaths as certain posters did.

I think in the case op describes of local teenage grandchildren SILs attitude is extreme. They could meet outside for short periods fully observing social distancing, so lower risk than if grandparents are going to shops etc...

Incidentally, I don’t think SiL is being pragmatic and weighing risks well (short outdoor meet-ups with teens carry an infinitesimal risk of transmission). But there are clearly other things going on. OP mentions that they’ve barely been out the house since March, that her brother is totally on board and is fighting a return to the office. For whatever reason, they’re clearly suffering from high anxieties about the situation themselves (whether fully rational or not).

Again though, I find a slipping of MumsNet standards. If this were any other topics, posters would be saying ‘why isn’t this about your brother too?? Why are you blaming it all on the woman / SiL? ’

@Redolent

*The massive decrease in people going to doctors in the last six months is having significant negative impacts on cancer diagnoses and outcomes.

————

I have never once understood this point. How does an increase in covid hospitalizations (of the vulnerable and elderly) help people obtain cancer care? It’s the precise opposite. The waiting list is immense and will take years to plough through. The last thing you would surely want is diminishing health care capacity.

If grandparents are saying ‘if I get sick I forfeit all rights to medical treatment’ that’s a different issue entirely. I can’t imagine this is remotely plausible for the majority of people to say.

Your point is laughable and makes no sense. Forfeiting healthcare access!! What about smokers? They're taking a risk by smoking so shouldn't have access to healthcare?! No, I didn't think so.

If grandparents are happy to take the risk then crack on i say. Life is far too short as it is.

They will be vulnerable
I have a vulnerable child, she is obviously due back at school, we have risk assessments in place and she will be fairly much segregated although I think she would still rather go than not. For the rest of winter that is it. She comes home after school, no clubs she goes to etc, so soft play / cinemas etc
She will also not be allowed to see my sister / brother in law or nan as all work in busy environments.
So I see where they are coming from BUT I think it’s done to the grandparents they are the ones at risk.

@Juststopswimming I didn’t say they should forfeit access.... Just that the inevitable increase in elderly hospitalizations will be counterproductive to those on the NHS waiting list, including people awaiting cancer treatment. Unless they forfeit their rights to treatment, which will never happen (rightly so).

However if anything happened the SIL would have to live with the knowledge. Maybe she doesn’t want to do that

how would you ever prove that they caught it from a particular child if they are also seeing the OP's children and going out, seeing friends (even at a distance) etc.

Anyway why can't they meet outside?

The analogy to smokers is weak. They are risking only their own health.

Spreaders are risking others, and are more akin to drunk drivers out on the roads.