Children mustn't see grandparents until vaccine found?

[Witterywoman]

Now that the kids are back at school, SIL has said her kids must isolate from both sets of grandparents in case they give them Covid picked up at school, and this must continue until a vaccine is found. All 4 grandparents are over 70 but healthy, no health conditions to speak of. My parents are particularly upset and don't understand it. I don't get it either and don't intend to stop them seeing my kids.

Are we missing something?

People are bad at assessing risk there are those that over estimate the risk thinking death is an almost a certainty if you are over 70 and get covid, on the other hand there are those that underestimate it and say it's like flu both are wildly inaccurate

But I do already do all of those things. That’s not the same as we must to everything to save every single life and calling everyone “selfish” that you were doing earlier.

Exactly what I was thinking!

@ListeningQuietly

They just genuinely can’t see the risk happening to them or their families, until it does. In the queue at the chip shop last week, the discussion was about the rate per 100,000 in this city. People knew what it was very accurately and also how many COVID cases were currently being treated at the massive hospital.

On the basis of that accurate knowledge
they were getting on with their lives

True, we have more information at our disposal, and people should freely use it. Not that I’ve seen the OP being asked to clarify what region they’re in, or its rates. The majority just seem to be saying that it’s a blanket decision for the GPs to take, irrespective of how high or low infection rates are in their area. Even if they were living in Bolton (highest rates atm) people here would still say ‘it’s their choice’.

For me personally, we’re not living in hermetically sealed zones, so I take the rates with a pinch of salt. For instance, holidaymakers fly in all the time and if they don’t quarantine and go gallivanting around pubs instead, that can drive infections up out of nowhere.

People also hugely underestimate exponential growth. Spain / France are the current warning for us now, much as Italy was in Feb.

My hugely vulnerable 89 year old Mum, living on her own, hasn't seen us since God knows when. I'm going to visit briefly on my own tomorrow precisely because ds has started back at school today and I won't feel right doing it further into winter when all the viruses are back circulating, let alone covid.

But of course I do understand not all grandparents are as old as my Mum, nor as vulnerable health-wise.

Redolent
Whatever the case load may or may not be
the hospital is currently treating zero COVID cases.
That is a fact.

After 500,000 people packed onto Bournemouth beach in the hot weather
the rise in hospital admissions was
zero

People may be testing positive
but it does not necessarily mean they are getting ill
nor does it mean they are definitely contagious

@TeacupDrama

People are bad at assessing risk there are those that over estimate the risk thinking death is an almost a certainty if you are over 70 and get covid, on the other hand there are those that underestimate it and say it's like flu both are wildly inaccurate

Very true.

As I said earlier, my sister, although she is a doctor, overestimated the threat to her patients who were all older with significant underlying health problems. As in, a common or garden cold could have killed them quite easily, if they were unlucky. Yes, some of them were very ill when they all caught covid, but most of them were not. That doesn't mean "woop di doo, let's all go to a big, indoor party and hug our grannies every day", but I do think people tend to minimise OR go way ott with their dire warnings. The truth is somewhere in the middle. So, for me, aside from taking reasonable precautions, as I do, (I won't list them all, but I will say that most of the posts saying "I'm so cautious because I do this, cos I'm well caring"...I already do that), there isn't much need for the "everyone is selfish except me and you will all kill your nans in LITERALLY the worst way imaginable" posts.

Given that colds are being spread around in school that suggests that precations are not adequate to completely stop virus transmission.

I like the Japanese guidance

Avoid the three C's
Coughs
Crowds
Confined spaces
As that will reduce the risk of ALL infections

Given that colds are being spread around in school that suggests that precations are not adequate to completely stop virus transmission.

That assumes that CV acts in the body exactly like a cold, which we know is not the case.

That’s not to say necessarily that the precautions are adequate, but the only thing that will tell us that is the spread or otherwise of CV.

This patronising attitude to older people gives me the ache. Do they have dementia ? If not, let them decide.

@TeacupDrama

Life in 21st century Western Europe has never had such a low risk, but we still live with risk every day, the riskiest day of your life is still the day you are born, in the UK approximately 13 people under the age of 20 die every day on average 7 of these are under 1, so that is 6 older children every day or 900 since lockdown began. Your chance of dying is least when you are 10 when it is 1 in 13500 by the time you are 50 your chance of dying in a single year is about 1 in 55 by the time you are 90 it is 1 in 8, this doesn't really stop any age group doing stuff. We chose to take risks all the time some fairly essential others not so much . Going hill walking in the lake district is probably riskier than walking on flat tarmac path in local park, but many consider the extra risk of hill walking well worth taking but it's not necessary for anyone to walk peaks in Lake district. So barely anyone has the attitude that you must always do the safest thing as the perceived benefits of the riskier activity outweigh the extra risks. So it is perfectly reasonable for one person to decide that for them the risk of a fall on helvellyn is worth it for the views and exercise another person might decide for them the risk of a sprained ankle or fall is too much and they would rather admire helvellyn from the lake side. Using the analogy for covid one older person decides the pleasure of seeing family is worth the risk as tfor them they see the risk of loneliness and depression as a worse risk, other people may come to the opposite conclusion but it doesn't mean that one is right and the other wrong.

All of this blather completely ignores that when one gets COVID, one exposes many others to great risk, esp if one is an asymptomatic spreader.

Hill climbing and the rest only incurs personal risk. See the difference?

The point comes when one has to ask what do we stay alive for? Would I rather live two years but have not contact, no touch, with my grandchildren or would I rather hold them close but drop dead within months? There is being alive and there is living and those who enjoy the richest experiences are very clear on the difference between the two.

All of this blather completely ignores that when one gets COVID, one exposes many others to great risk, esp if one is an asymptomatic spreader.

No because people social distance, wear masks, wash hands, if they’re aware they have it they get tested, isolate etc. No one is saying this shouldn’t be done.

But your perspective that we should all stay in all the time, get food delivered etc isn’t practicable.

And grandparents who wish to see their children are allowed to make that decision - and if they want to hug them, knowing the risk of passing on Covid, they can make that decision too.

All of this blather completely ignores that when one gets COVID, one exposes many others to great risk, esp if one is an asymptomatic spreader.
define great

@CHIRIBAYA

The point comes when one has to ask what do we stay alive for? Would I rather live two years but have not contact, no touch, with my grandchildren or would I rather hold them close but drop dead within months? There is being alive and there is living and those who enjoy the richest experiences are very clear on the difference between the two.

How would you feel if your "rich experience" of life causes someone else to die?

If people were just making themselves sick, I'd say have at it - like someone who smokes or eats McDonalds often. But indulging in hugs with the grandkids and other self-gratification with Covid afoot is more like willful reckless drunk driving without a care to how it impacts others.

The virus doesn't care if granny was desperate for a hug or Evvie needed a playdate.

Perveen
You DO understand that most people who catch COVID, even old ones
do not die
In fact lots and lots and lots never realise they had it

All of this blather completely ignores that when one gets COVID, one exposes many others to great risk, esp if one is an asymptomatic spreader.

You're honestly like some sort of Covid High Priestess.

Oh fgs get a grip.

@MaxNormal

All of this blather completely ignores that when one gets COVID, one exposes many others to great risk, esp if one is an asymptomatic spreader.

You're honestly like some sort of Covid High Priestess.

With the self-gratification comment I think nun is more apposite.

@MaxNormal

All of this blather completely ignores that when one gets COVID, one exposes many others to great risk, esp if one is an asymptomatic spreader.

You're honestly like some sort of Covid High Priestess.

You insult me, but none of you will address the distinction between assuming personal risk, and risking the greater society by your discretionary activities.

I don't how many hikers fall of cliff's because falling off a cliff is not contagious and cannot be exponentially and rapidly spread through the population.

@CHIRIBAYA

Totally agree. There does come a point where one must weigh up the risks between living a life & just existing. To not see the people who give your life meaning leaves you where?

My parents (mid seventies) have said we can’t visit until they have had the vaccine. I haven’t seen them since Christmas. They are completely isolating though so I do understand. They think they may get vaccinated by this Christmas however as they are classed as vulnerable and have been told there is a possibility (not in the UK).

That's up to the grandparents surely

You insult me
Tbf you kind of started by calling people selfish.

I know I'm gettig childish but honestly, this is ridiculous, and the loving descriptions of people dying in agony was in hugely poor taste.

Not all grandparents are old. Just thought I'd mention that.... Some of us are in our 50s. DH was in the shielding category, and we decided to do a family bubble after following the shielding advice to the letter. Only saw the kids at SD or on Zoom but after 5 months of this, enough was enough. We do cuddle them and they stayed last weekend. Yes, there are risks but to not see them would be hell on earth.