Children mustn't see grandparents until vaccine found?

[Witterywoman]

Now that the kids are back at school, SIL has said her kids must isolate from both sets of grandparents in case they give them Covid picked up at school, and this must continue until a vaccine is found. All 4 grandparents are over 70 but healthy, no health conditions to speak of. My parents are particularly upset and don't understand it. I don't get it either and don't intend to stop them seeing my kids.

Are we missing something?

But we do take precautions for many of those diseases in this country. There are vaccinations for children, and if we are travelling to countries where extra precautions are needed we take them eg maleria tablets/nets.

Those diseases are also not classified as a pandemic.

@Friendsoftheearth

The selfish will continue to demand that the elderly are put at risk for their personal benefit/convenience, and that we can all die from literally anything so why bother protecting them.

It is such a lame excuse - designed to serve your own needs whatever the cost, even the death of a cherished loved one. The selfish refuse to have their lives 'put on hold' or curtailed in anyway because they don't think it is going to happen to them. The epitome of pure arrogance.

It is an old script on here since the pandemic began, people completely incapable of putting the lives of others first and foremost. Incapable of caring enough to say we will see you for a walk, but we love you and need to keep you safe, that way we will have you for many more decades to come. Nope.

They will scream and shout that covid is all just drama and the risk is zilch, even as we watch the infection rate creep up and up, and every country around us is now battling a second wave. The selfish will still only serve themselves with their lame narrative - it is not even worth trying to reason with these people! Pointless. You can't force people to care.
They will just have to find out the hard way, an sadly those closest to them will probably pay the ultimate price.

I wonder how that will feel when it really comes to it.

This is spot on. As many will learn to their woe when the second surge revs up this fall. Be interesting to see how the "you've got to get out there & live!" crowd fares.

There are vaccinations for children, and if we are travelling to countries where extra precautions are needed we take them eg maleria tablets/nets.

You mean western children

So this is your brother's wife? I think she should keep her nose out and your brother should get a backbone and tell her that it's a decision that should be made after a discussion between him and his parents. It's nothing to do with her! I would never dream of telling my DH and his parents that I was stopping the children from having a relationship with their grandparents.

@MadameBlobby

How many of the COVID hysterics have signed up for the vaccine trials out of interest. Or will be letting other people take the risk for you on that as well?

Oh you know the type. They’ll batter on about it being “unsafe” and “untested” while still complaining about the pandemic but won’t have the vaccine until everyone else has had it.

I know right?

It's always the terminally cowardly who shout the loudest. Thank God they are in the minority or we'd get nothing done on the planet aside from weeping, wailing and gnashing teeth.

Examples of non cowards actually helping the situation would by my PILs, dad and sister, all mentioned up thread. A lot more knowledgeable about covid than probably most people on this thread due to their jobs, and yet they aren't on here screaming about whose death is going to be worse and who will regret what on their death beds. Ffs. This place has a small handful of absolutely batshot weirdos.

We are reducing contact with people outside of our bubble for a while to see how the schools opening effects things. My mum is in our support bubble to does childcare, but we are reducing other activities to help balance the risks for DM. Other grandparents we will be seeing outside or at a distance inside. We'll keep reviewing this based on the guidelines and the local situation. There is currently an outbreak near us so feeling extra cautious.

And people could do more for other countries by putting their hands in their pockets to help pay for vaccinations etc.

And people could do more for other countries by putting their hands in their pockets to help pay for vaccinations etc.

What are all these massive drops in GDP and huge borrowings to fund the economy shutting down going to do to foreign aid budgets I wonder?

Oh wait, I think I know.

Well my DF is 80 and his best friend at age 5 caught Polio and was in an iron lung. So he is seeing his children and grandchildren because he isn’t living the rest of his life locked away. He doesn’t care.

Exactly @WhereTheCrawdadsSing

They’re actually the most selfish of all. Expect everyone to go out to work in food product, delivery etc to facilitate them sitting on their arse. Don’t care about other health issues, poverty, children not being educated, or job losses. Expect everyone else to take part in vaccine trials to have a vaccine so they don’t have to. And yet they somehow dress this up as showing how caring they are. All they care about is themselves.

And what is even more twisted that despite the less than 1% death rate they are not only convinced that everyone who doesn’t do what they do will get it but will also die, and appear to take real pleasure in this. Weird.

@PerveenMistry

I don't think you needed to be sarcastic to me. I said I respect their decision. But I am worried about my children not seeing their GPs for years, potentially, and I am worried about the effects of total isolation on the GPs. And yes, I do miss the family help. I don't think it's unreasonable of me to say so on here. It would be unreasonable to pressure them or try to persuade them to change their minds, which I have no intention of doing. But let's not pretend that their choice is cost-free.

We’d usually see in laws every couple of months but we’ll wait until Christmas. They’re not local so it’s easy to do.

I've told dm after this weekend mine will only see her on her garden. Schools aren't able to SD so cases will rise.

It will be allowed as NHS is better prepared. But I won't let my kids live with the guilt of giving their nan coronavirus.

Life in 21st century Western Europe has never had such a low risk, but we still live with risk every day, the riskiest day of your life is still the day you are born, in the UK approximately 13 people under the age of 20 die every day on average 7 of these are under 1, so that is 6 older children every day or 900 since lockdown began. Your chance of dying is least when you are 10 when it is 1 in 13500 by the time you are 50 your chance of dying in a single year is about 1 in 55 by the time you are 90 it is 1 in 8, this doesn't really stop any age group doing stuff. We chose to take risks all the time some fairly essential others not so much . Going hill walking in the lake district is probably riskier than walking on flat tarmac path in local park, but many consider the extra risk of hill walking well worth taking but it's not necessary for anyone to walk peaks in Lake district. So barely anyone has the attitude that you must always do the safest thing as the perceived benefits of the riskier activity outweigh the extra risks. So it is perfectly reasonable for one person to decide that for them the risk of a fall on helvellyn is worth it for the views and exercise another person might decide for them the risk of a sprained ankle or fall is too much and they would rather admire helvellyn from the lake side. Using the analogy for covid one older person decides the pleasure of seeing family is worth the risk as tfor them they see the risk of loneliness and depression as a worse risk, other people may come to the opposite conclusion but it doesn't mean that one is right and the other wrong.

madame It is perfectly healthy and morally right that the young (assuming they are not vulnerable) support the elderly and the at risk by continuing to work.

We can continue working, schooling, shopping and all the rest so that we can provide safety for those that could become seriously ill or die from covid, so that they do not have to take huge risks with their lives. The delivery guy is fully capable of dropping bags by the door risk free, in the same way I carry out my job minimising the risk as much as I can.

The very nature of a civilised society should respond in this way, in a reasonable and considered manner putting a shield around those that have the highest risk factors if the infection rate increases, whilst we continue to support the country and population if we are not high risk. That way we have the best chance of saving as many lives as possible.

That includes being sensible around visiting older relatives, and choosing fresh air walks and other careful visits outside. I can't think why anyone with any common sense whatsoever would argue with that, surely it is common sense to most reasonable thinking people.

We will certainly be being careful around the grandparents now the kids are mixing with loads of others. We are going back to zoom and garden visits only. I would never forgive myself if they got I'll because of us. I'm considering taking the kids out of school a week before Christmas so we can isolate and actually spend Christmas with them.

Normalcy bias, or normality bias, is a cognitive bias which leads people to disbelieve or minimize threat warnings. Consequently, individuals underestimate the likelihood of a disaster, when it might affect them, and its potential adverse effects.

——————

MumsNet was an embarrassment in Feb / early March for precisely this reason. We had the stats from Italy but the vast majority were in denial. Went from a handful of deaths in early March to recording 500 a day three weeks later.

And yes, it’s happening again (people will probably be jolted out of it come October or thereabouts). Most people aren’t making their own risk assessments. They just genuinely can’t see the risk happening to them or their families, until it does.

We’re wrapping up and going to see grandparents for walks outdoors. They have 9 grandchildren attending 4 different schools. That’s a lot of exposure and I don’t want to add to it.

They just genuinely can’t see the risk happening to them or their families, until it does.
In the queue at the chip shop last week, the discussion was about the rate per 100,000 in this city.
People knew what it was very accurately
and also how many COVID cases were currently being treated at the massive hospital.

On the basis of that accurate knowledge
they were getting on with their lives

Using the analogy for covid one older person decides the pleasure of seeing family is worth the risk as tfor them they see the risk of loneliness and depression as a worse risk, other people may come to the opposite conclusion but it doesn't mean that one is right and the other wrong.

The additional complication is that at the moment we just don’t know the impact of returning to school on infection rates.

There is a sensible middle path between not seeing gps until a vaccine is found and pretending Covid doesn’t exist.

Personally I think Availability bias is playing a much more substantial role here.

We react to what’s most available and immediate. We prioritise its importance.

Hence the total obsession with Covid. Covid is everywhere, all over the media, all anyone’s talking about. We start to think, act, feel like nothing’s important but Covid. Despite our rational understanding that this is not the case.

Demonstrated regularly and strongly on here.

The rate is relatively low for now. We'll have to see what happens over the next month or two.
I think the grandparents should decide really. Surely they could meet outside while the weather is still mild?

@Friendsoftheearth

madame It is perfectly healthy and morally right that the young (assuming they are not vulnerable) support the elderly and the at risk by continuing to work.

We can continue working, schooling, shopping and all the rest so that we can provide safety for those that could become seriously ill or die from covid, so that they do not have to take huge risks with their lives. The delivery guy is fully capable of dropping bags by the door risk free, in the same way I carry out my job minimising the risk as much as I can.

The very nature of a civilised society should respond in this way, in a reasonable and considered manner putting a shield around those that have the highest risk factors if the infection rate increases, whilst we continue to support the country and population if we are not high risk. That way we have the best chance of saving as many lives as possible.

That includes being sensible around visiting older relatives, and choosing fresh air walks and other careful visits outside. I can't think why anyone with any common sense whatsoever would argue with that, surely it is common sense to most reasonable thinking people.

But I do already do all of those things. That’s not the same as we must to everything to save every single life and calling everyone “selfish” that you were doing earlier.

What are all these massive drops in GDP and huge borrowings to fund the economy shutting down going to do to foreign aid budgets I wonder?

There are already plans in the UK to cut the foreign aid budget to pay for this. That will cause deaths, no two ways about it. But they are foreign and far away, so...

We’re wrapping up and going to see grandparents for walks outdoors. They have 9 grandchildren attending 4 different schools. That’s a lot of exposure and I don’t want to add to it.

Yes, same here! I haven't even seen my dad in person since before this started. I see only a handful of posts from people saying they are being significantly less cautious. I see a lot of posts, mainly from a couple of the same posters, really enjoying catastrophising and presenting the absolute worst case scenario almost as a fait accompli for anyone over a certain age, or in fact, anyone of any age.

@Friendsoftheearth

That most recent post of yours is quite sensible, but tbh, you lost any right to lecture anyone on how a civilised society operates when you have proven yourself to be the opposite of civilised with some of your disgusting posts on here.

Certain posters on here have really enjoyed themselves with this, it seems. This pandemic must have been quite the gift. Mumsnet is indeed an embarrassment, but not for minimising this tbh; that really hasn't happened for quite some time.
And the reason it did in the first place, was because it reflected the mood in the country at the time. Many people believed this would be like SARS or swine flu. It didn't help that there were alleged cover ups in certain countries where the virus had already been. So no, sorry, but there really isn't any victory in being one of the ones who 'called it'.

What is so distasteful on here just now is the glee some people take when they plumb the depths of their murky little imaginations, for the most grotesque outcome they can find, and then tell people it will happen to them or their old gran . I sometimes wonder if some of these people were the ones we have had on here for many years saying no death is as bad as climate change and we needed a good pandemic to wipe people out!