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The Disunited States of Trump (Trump Thread #104)

988 replies

TheNorthWestPawsage · 02/09/2020 14:25

Trump used manipulation and race-baiting four years ago. He’s at it again. We are weary and worried but we shall persist.

Cartoon by Chris Riddell.

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3983600-Less-than-100-days-and-counting-Trump-thread-103?msgid=99566209#99566209

The Disunited States of Trump (Trump Thread #104)
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26
Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 24/09/2020 08:32

I am glad "The Atlantic" published that article a month earlier than intended, it should focus people's minds on what Trump and Co are planning to do. I hope it's not too late!
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/

Dan Rather, the voice of reason, writes:
"There is no more time for silence. There is no more time for choosing party over country. There is no more time for weighing the lesser of two evils. All women and men of conscience must speak or they are complicit in America lurching towards a dangerous cliff of autocracy and chaos.

This is a moment of reckoning unlike any I have seen in my lifetime. I have seen this country in deep peril, as the hungry begged for sustenance during the Great Depression, as the Nazis marched across Europe and the Japanese across Asia, as missiles were moved into Cuba, as our political leaders were murdered, as a president ran a criminal conspiracy from the Oval Office, as planes were hijacked into skyscrapers. All of these were scary times, but through it all I never worried about a president actively undermining American democracy and inciting violence to do so - even Nixon, for all of his criminal activity.

What Donald Trump said today are the words of a dictator. To telegraph that he would consider becoming the first president in American history not to accept the peaceful transfer of power is not a throw-away line. It's not a joke. He doesn't joke. And it is not prospective. The words are already seeding a threat of violence and illegitimacy into our electoral process.

I suspect he is doing this because he feels he needs to. It is the same reason he sought dirt on Joe Biden, because he is deeply afraid of losing. Losing an election could mean losing in a court of law. It could mean prison time and ruin. But I suspect Trump's motives are more instinctual. He needs to hold on to power for the sake of power. He cannot lose, even if he has to cheat to win. Even if he has to blow up American democracy. He considers little if any about 200,000 plus deaths from COVID. Why would he care about our Constitution or Bill of Rights?

There is no sugarcoating the dangers and darkness we live in. But I remain heartened that the majority of Americans do not want this. Trump is in danger of losing states that he should be winning handily. Yes, his base is energized and numerous. But so is the opposition. I have seen opposition parties in foreign countries channel the morality of their causes to bring great change. And most of those opposition movements didn't have the strength, power, and resources of those who stand against Donald Trump.

Donald Trump has himself defined the stakes of the election. This is a battle for American democracy as we've known it. We are well past warning shots. Allies across the political spectrum are ringing alarm bells. Right now, all those seeking to defeat Donald Trump know winning a close election may not be enough. The size of a victory will likely matter. Failing that, what happens? I don't know. But I would say we all should try to remain steady. Try to conserve our energy for the battles ahead. Be committed to your community, your country, and your conscience. If enough Americans of decency and courage come together, the future of this nation can be better, fairer, and more just."

hellsbellswithcherryontop · 24/09/2020 08:39

Given the chaosdoes anyone think that any states could try to seced from the union if trump tries to fight the election resultsif he loses?

PerkingFaintly · 24/09/2020 09:13

I think there will probably be anonymous social media campaigns suggesting secession in Trump's post-election chaos. I mean, there were a few attempts after the 2016 election, but IIRC they didn't get much take-up.

But this will certainly be something Putin's troll farms will push. Any kind of destabilization of the US works for Putin, and indeed for any other actor who'd benefit from the US being weaker.

Lweji · 24/09/2020 09:30

Jaichangecentfoisdenom

Scary.

Not only in the US but I've been getting the feeling for some time that we are in a slow car crash.
The only way will be a clear Biden win, as often pointed out on these threads. Even so...

catgotmytongue · 24/09/2020 09:38

Long time lurker but somewhat obsessive follower of American politics.
I think that Trump will deliberately inject false absentee ballots into the system so that he can "legitimately" claim ballot fraud.
I look at what's going on there and am scared for America. It is so polarised and it is spreading to this country. I hate the them and us mentality and the use of negative narrative to disparage those who ultimately want to live in a peaceful and equal society.

Roussette · 24/09/2020 11:18

Welcome catgotmytongue and yes agree with your post.
Scary times

Jason118 · 24/09/2020 11:30

I think it's the notion of equality that drives people to vote republican/conservative. They see what they have and what some people have not, and because they are more inclined towards selfishness, they vote to 'protect' what they have. Their fear of levelling down outweighs the benefits of levelling up.

TheSparklyPussycat · 24/09/2020 11:45

Does anyone observe the election to see if it's fair, like they do in countries with dictatorships?

lionheart · 24/09/2020 12:22

Hello catgotmytongue.

There is nothing he won't do to get 're-elected' or hold on to power.

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 24/09/2020 13:20

Twitterati on here, could you kindly tell me why #Switzerland is trending in the US? Is it something to do with mail-in ballots being regularly used for voting in Switzerland? Also, as a Swiss national, I would like to tell you that I have been voting in Swiss elections/referendums from abroad for the past 10 years, and my commune actually allows me to vote on-line! It's brilliant!

Lweji · 24/09/2020 14:49

@TheSparklyPussycat

Does anyone observe the election to see if it's fair, like they do in countries with dictatorships?
AFAIK, it only happens if the governments allow it.

It would be fun, though, watching blue helmets descend on the USA to ensure fairness in the elections. Grin

AcrossthePond55 · 24/09/2020 15:48

@TheSparklyPussycat

Does anyone observe the election to see if it's fair, like they do in countries with dictatorships?
Up until now, there has been no need.

I really, really wish the UN would send observers but it sounds as if that's not possible. If Scrotus is 'so concerned' about fraud you'd think he'd be jumping at the chance. Not.

From the UN website (bolding mine):
"United Nations electoral assistance is provided only at the specific request of the Member State concerned, or based on a mandate from the Security Council or General Assembly. Before assistance is agreed and provided, the United Nations assesses the needs of the Member State to ensure that the assistance is tailored to the specific needs of the country or situation..."

dppa.un.org/en/elections

AcrossthePond55 · 24/09/2020 16:06

There is this though:

www.cnn.com/2020/08/15/politics/trump-campaign-poll-watching-battles/index.html

This article is from August so I don't know the current status of this 'plan'.

I know that poll watching isn't unusual for either party, but it's normally people who are trained by each party to do so. And who are there only to make sure rules are observed. The GOP plan sounds more like a large 'presence' of people whose primary purpose is to be highly visible (ie intimidating), not to monitor procedures. After all if it's just to watch the election officials, why would you need a large presence? Three to five trained individuals quietly watching the proceedings would be sufficient.

BruceAndNosh · 24/09/2020 16:27

Trump faces boos and chants of Vote Him Out while paying respect (ha!) to RBG.
www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/sep/24/vote-him-out-trump-booed-while-paying-respects-to-ruth-bader-ginsburg-video
I wonder how he's going to spin that

Roussette · 24/09/2020 17:41

Bruce
Oh my goodness. That's the loudest and most easily heard shout I've heard against Trump
Please don't let him discredit RBG because of this

He gets no jeers but cheers in front of his paid for attendees at his cult rallies, this will be a difficult one to spin
He'll probably say they were shouting 'vote him out' to get rid of Biden Grin

I wonder what McNinny will spin?!

BruceAndNosh · 24/09/2020 18:25

McNinny will say the boos were disrespectful to RBG and ignore the fact that they were directed at Trump

lionheart · 24/09/2020 18:33

At least he wore his mask so we don't have to look at that sulky pucker thing he does. Surprised he didn't fold his arms.

AcrossthePond55 · 24/09/2020 19:25

I sent DH a link to that 'booing video' and he keeps playing it over and over. Says it's 'relaxing'. lol

AcrossthePond55 · 24/09/2020 19:29

@BruceAndNosh

McNinny will say the boos were disrespectful to RBG and ignore the fact that they were directed at Trump
RBG would be smiling at this lawful, Constitutionally protected exercise of our 1st Amendment rights.

And also at the fact that the protesters were urging people to use our Constitutionally protected election process to 'vote him out', instead of random hate-filled chants of 'lock him/her up' or 'build a wall'.

boatyardblues · 24/09/2020 19:35

@HoldMyLobster

Anyone else watching Fauci and Redfield testifying before the Senate Health Committee right now?

Rand Paul is still trying to tell Fauci that people in New York are only not getting Covid any more because they've achieved herd immunity, despite Fauci very specifically telling him he is wrong.

Says a lot about the arrogance of some Republicans in thinking they know more about an epidemic than the epidemiologists.

We’ve had our own nay-saying experts here in the UK, professors of evidence-based medicine and the like. There was a great interview on Radio 4 here a couple days ago where a professor of epidemiology commented that there were a lot of ‘experts’ new to the discipline holding forth and that he didn’t share their views. It was such an expertly delivered burn, the ‘Chinese burn’ type. Ouch!
Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 24/09/2020 19:49

@AcrossthePond55

I sent DH a link to that 'booing video' and he keeps playing it over and over. Says it's 'relaxing'. lol
I completely understand your DH, @AcrossthePond55 - I find myself comparing the same clip from different sources. I particularly like the ones which end with "Honour her wish!"
BruceAndNosh · 24/09/2020 20:10

@lionheart

At least he wore his mask so we don't have to look at that sulky pucker thing he does. Surprised he didn't fold his arms.
Much as I enjoyed his discomfort at forced mask wearing, For once I really wanted to see his face when the booing got going Grin
Roussette · 24/09/2020 20:21

*Across" your DH is a sensible bloke

I've watched it too many times
My DDs love it lots and DSS is laughing

One of my DDs is on a sabbatical as of 1st Nov. She's promised to see me through the election horror Grin

BruceAndNosh · 24/09/2020 20:33

Surprised he didn't get his heavy mob to tear gas the crowd outside before he arrived

TheNorthWestPawsage · 24/09/2020 20:54

Falling behind with the news at the moment due to... life! So thanks to all for keeping the fires burning!

It seems fateful to say I am looking forward to next week's debate but I do feel like we've finally reached the prelude to the main act. So bring it on!

The booing clips have made my day.

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