To not want to promise BiL inheritance cut

[NamingShaming]

This has the potential to be a long one.

I live in London, work four days a week and live with my DH who works full time and our two kids (5,3). I’m retraining (over weekends) and want to quit my job or reduce days. My DH HATES his (on paper v good) job. We think we need a change - even before lockdown we’ve been struggling to enjoy life and I’m the quintessential sitcom mum who arrives sweaty and five mins late to pick up from after school club (pre lockdown days). (My DH does morning drop offs)

Anyway, we are thinking of leaving London to downsize our mortgage because we both want to work less and achieve more balance.

My in-laws who live in what is considered a ‘very nice’ (and this pricey) city want to downsize. I have no passion for this area but I appreciate my DH wants to be nearer his folks and then they can see grandkids who they are great with. (They can’t visit us due to health). They have offered to sell us their house in a private sale for c. £50kless than what is was valued for earlier this year. They think anecdotally it may have gone up in price which in theory would be a shaving off of £100k but then again it’s an anecdotal going up in price.

I asked BiL if he would have any objections to us purchasing house and he said no. I asked if he’d also want to live in same city to be near his folks and he said no but it would be handy having us all in one place for visits. The family gets on v well.

Hes now thought about it and wants to put in contract that when in-laws pass away he gets whatever saving (say it’s £50k) we made on house ring fenced.

AIBU to refuse? I don’t want to tear apart family over £50k but at the same time there is no fixed price of a house and you never actually know how much it would sell for. Other issue is the house is more than we want to pay really and won’t reduce mortgage by THAT much as houses in my area are not going for much at the moment.

DH has suggested we pay for a surveyor and out the in-laws suggested mates rates epics against that and then if it is a saving agree on contract that BiL gets that saving further down the line.
For full disclosure although I do want a change in my life to get more balance I would v likely give up my job int his scenario because - unless lockdown changes wfh rules at my company - I have to be based in London. So for me there is a lot of theoretical money wrapped up in this emotional move.

I can see this proposal easily going wrong:

1. the house never feeling like your home because your in laws or BIL still see it as their home.

2. your BIL feeling hard done by in the future if he has his own family or decides he wants to live in the area on any inheritance getting eaten up by care home fees etc,

Without being horrible, if they sell it to you now, especially at below the market price and then die or need full time care within 7years I think) could be classed as deprivation of assets. They money they have would need to pay for carers or placement and you could be chased for any differences.....around £1000 week equals £50000+ a year and would soon be spent. I would explain you don't want to put them through this, or upheaval of a move a find a cheaper house nearby then all kept separate

A happy family, enjoying each other is worth a fortune. I would not throw that away for a mere $50,000.00.

Is the OP in the US?

That aside, how bizarre to put an actual monetary value on “a happy family”!

God, no. Too complicated. Buy something else.

*Either you get three valuations and agree an average price with no ring fence . Then if pil have spare cash they split it between sons now .

Or the agreement is the bil gets slightly a different percentage of the inheritance . So no set amount but if you said 60/40 on death then he might gain or loose*

Or, how about both the op and her bil back off and realise the pil can do whatever the fuck they want with their money and it’s not up to op and bil to agree a contract about what happens pil’s money after they die, nor is it up to them to dictate that they spilt it a certain way now.

The sense of entitlement people have regarding inheritance and other people’s money never ceases to amaze me.

Thanks all. It is messy isn’t it. In writing it all down I started to see it’s too expensive for us to buy - it does defeat a key purpose of reducing mortgage.

Googled other houses in the area again to see if we could be near them in a non emotionally-bound-up house but the fact is it’s a nice area; they don’t come cheaper for the space we need. Plus, issue is that if we move somewhere I’m keen on (the coast) I still likely have to quit (job is in London, like I say) plus my DH will be travelling to see his DP a lot (further) because he does want to be closer to them and they cannot travel to us.

PiL said that we have to sort out any money issues ourselves with SiL. I raised that I think this is not a good idea to my DH; it is indeed their money to bestow.

I did raise the question of what if we get divorced? But you know, that can be asked at any time and unless you are getting divorced at that time you can’t predict what the state of affairs will be can you.

I can’t forget that something HAS to give in our lives - it can be easy to forget in lockdown how how hard both of us working and commuting was with school pick ups etc. (A real worry is how much DH hates his on and he has said he will continue WFH and assumes will be happier because he will be nearer his parents and our kids will see them more. I don’t know if this will make the difference he thinks it will, but it might do I suppose).

Anyway their family are going to have an in person socially distanced summit next week (I won’t be there) and perhaps something will come out of that.

TLDR; we might be having an early mid life crisis and think moving ‘home’ to DH’s home will fix it?! Sounds Freudian somehow...

Why did you ask for BIL's blessing, OP?

So he wants to enter into a contract with you where he gives no consideration and you agree to give him what he believes his parents might have otherwise left him in their wills?

The whole thing sounds mad and I feel sorry for the parents.

Do you even want the house? Wouldn’t it be better for the parents to get full value of their house while you pick the house you want in the area you want?

What happens if there is no equity left in your in-laws house when they both die?

What happens if the price of property falls and you are in negative equity?

What happens if you are both made redundant and have to sell the house?

What happens if you end up looking after your in-laws and have to give up your job?

Why did you even mention it to your BIL - it had nothing to do with him, and now it does.

My brother bought parents place when they divorced. Reasonable place. Fast forward a few years they had done it up but needed somewhere bigger. They sold it for a handsome price. My mother never forgave them for not giving them some of the profit they had made she told everyone she had been conned somehow.

You see how things can sour

OP this all sounds terribly muddled, not sure what problem you are trying to solve anymore but I suggest taking a step back and reassessing what you want to have happen here. I'm confused as to why you even asked BIL about it etc and I wonder if you are just as confused. Just seems like a very convoluted way of not solving the problem you actually have tbh

You either buy the house or you don't. If In Laws decide to give Greedy BiL something in their will then it would come from the new property. To me he is trying to pick your pocket. I wouldn't have asked him the question, the arrangement does not involve him. What happens if property values fall, is he going to chip in and help you?

I don't understand exactly what you mean by ringfenced?

I don't agree with the idea on a whole either lol but what is it that he is actually saying? Sorry if that is a stupid question

Oh yeah; we’re very confused. We’re in a life rut and trying to get out. And then came the offer of us buying PiL house for mates rates, which is tempting.
I asked BiL because I don’t have siblings and I wanted to be fair. I suppose I wanted him to either say ‘I do want the house and so do you so let’s call the whole thing off’ or ‘ no problems here’. He’s probably doing what I’d do - trying to create sone sort of fairness out of an unfair situation (there is only one house to sell). I did ask early on in the process if they wouldn’t rather sell for max value for future proofing their own care but they said they’d like to sell to us, if that’s what we want so I think they have some money saved.

I will have to look into this issue about them possibly dying within seven years. I had not heard of that and of course it is a possibility.

Your parents-in-law must be delighted that a generous offer has resulted in bickering over what happens after they die. Maybe they'll tell you all where you can go and spend it on themselves.

I should stress there is no bickering - everyone still gets on fine. I think my attempt to bring BiL in was to assuage future bickering and not be seen to cut family members out. Anyway, thank you all for your responses it’s been very helpful to talk this out.

I'm a little confused sorry if I have missed something it's been a long day.

Are you and PIL putting the money from your respective house sales together to but a joint property bigger and better than you could alone? Or are you just talking about buying in the same part of the country so you are near to each other? But own and responsible for your own properties respectively?

I think if your buying as a joint venture then BIL is correct to want some future plan for assists otherwise it will get very complicated! In fact I think you need to sit down with A solicitor and think about what happens if either in laws need care or other potentially expensive treatments ect. There should be a plan as to how those issues would be handled in the future! I don't agree to set amounts as such but I think a plan for the future is vital.

If you are both buying separate properties but close to each other then it's up to PILs to make a will as they see fit and neither you or BIL get a say as to what that is!

Oh I really would not.

Can you move somewhere nearby, which is less pricey?

Could you do a trial by renting and keeping you London home?

Sorry just realised that I have indeed missed you are buying Pils place and anything I have said is irrelevant!

No I don't think BIL gets to ringfence an amount in these circumstances as like pp have said if that area looses money in the future that is completely unfair. You can only deal in the here and now if Pils want to sell they get to sell what what they think is fair.

Eh? Why did you speak to bil about it, rather than your dh or even neither of you?
Nobody other than Pil can write their Will surely.
That's what it is, their Will.
Find somewhere to live where you don't need to consult your husbands family.

I’m not sure it is 7 years any more. For care needs, I think councils can now go back an unlimited amount of time to claw back deprivation of assets (which is what selling their house to you at a discount could be). Can you afford to repay the amount of the discount to find their care home if it came to it?

Might be 7 years for death / inheritance tax though.

Also bear in mind that the childcare juggling won’t last forever, and your children might be really pleased to live in London once they are teenage and older.

Your priorities should be providing for your children, having enough time for your children and having an enjoyable life.

This move does not meet those criteria: not reducing your outgoings much but gaining fewer employment prospects. You are not even that fussed on this expensive city.

The BIL £50k is a sideshow. Pleasing GP is nice but really not your main focus at this point in your life.

You could end up paying your BIL £50k, having a house less that you paid for it and then if they die in the next few years pay 40% IHT on that £50k. For something you aren't really that fussed about..

I wouldn't buy it. It will forever be a bone of contention it'll never be fully your home with these strings attached.
Whatever way you work it out someone will be unhappy I'd tell PIL thanks but no thanks.

My POV comes from almost 20 years of writing contracts for the federal government.
Where will the parents move to? I assume they are going to move into another house. That then becomes the "inheritence house", not the one the parents sell now. So that 50K is a moot point and all based on events and value that does not exist.

What if the parents sold up, got a big van and drove all around Europe, and spent their house money on having a good time. Would the BIL then go to court after their deaths to try and claw back his perceived inheritance form the rest of the living family? Inheritance is only what is left after they die, and if they decided to sell their house for magic beans, then it would be the beans, not the $ value of previous property that gets divided up according to their will (or however the law says if there is no will).
What if the parents sold their house and both moved into a nursing home (nursing homes are expensive!), therefore leaving NO house to inherit. What would the BIL do then? Go after the nursing home for 50K?

I would think of giving the BIL money ONLY IF YOU GOT THE HOUSE FOR FREE. But you aren't. You would be buying it for a close to market agreed value. In my city, 2 bedroom units in the CBD are currently selling for 100K LESS than they did last year because of Covid - no buyers because no travel, and local buyers lost jobs so no money TO buy. Your BIL can ... service himself.