to not want DD(14) to have this T-Shirt

[SqueamishMum]

Need a sanity check here (have name-changed so this isn't linked to other threads as I may be identifiable here)

A couple of weeks ago, DD(14) and I went to a thrift shop. I had given her some money to spend. She came up to me holding a T-Shirt balled up in her hands so I couldn't see the design, saying she was going to buy it.

Once she had bought it, she said to me "mum, you're not going to like this" and showed me the design on the T-Shirt. Basically it is a cartoon of someone getting their arm shredded in a blender with their eyes popping out. It is quite stylised and cartoony, but it is, in my opinion, gory (lots of cartoon blood).

I was unimpressed and said to her that I wasn't happy with her having it. She then said to me "oh well, too late to return it now" and swanned out of the shop.

I was pretty angry at her attitude and called her back. I went up to the counter with her and said she was to return it. The young woman behind the counter looked at the T-Shirt and said "really? I like it". I repeated that it was to be returned. She turned to my daughter and said "do you want to return it?". I said to her again that it was to be returned. My daughter was saying "it's my money!", but then relented and said she would return it.

The manager had to be called. The T-shirt was returned. My daughter went back into the shop to find something else to buy. I was feeling really angry, with my daughter for trying to get one over on me, but more with the attitude of the shop assistant undermining me, so I waited outside the shop.

My daughter came out with a couple of non-gory T-shirts and we left.

It has since transpired that the shop assistant, feeling sorry for my daughter, gave her the gory t-shirt free of charge.

My daughter confessed this to me, then said she had worn it out, and her dad really likes it, his girlfriend really likes it, her friend and her friend's mother really likes it. It's only me that doesn't like it. (Her dad btw utterly despises me and will take any opportunity to undermine me with her).

I personally feel it's really antisocial to wear a t-shirt like that out at the park (as DD has been doing) where there are small kids. It's a nasty image and it makes me feel squeamish every time I see it.

I've told DD that I don't want her wearing it around me. She said OK . This weekend she came back from her dad's wearing it. I told her to change and she said "it's fine, I'm only going to be wearing it upstairs where you can't see".

I'm not generally draconian about my daughter's style choices - I just find the image on this T-shirt inappropriate. However, it seems the shop assistant and other adults she's talked to about it since think I'm over the top.

I'm willing to accept that maybe I am being - but feel DD's testing boundaries on quite a few things atm. I'm generally a bit of a pushover and was trying to be less so this time.

Would be really interested to know what others think

Thanks

She’s a teenager, you stomping your feet over the top shirt (she probably bought it btw) has elevated the t shirt into an anti -parent/I’m nearly an adult/I am my own person symbol. She will wear it til it falls to pieces (probably has a spare in the wardrobe just in case).

Just ignore the t shirt it will go away.

At 14 anything will be a battleground, it could be time to start adjusting how you communicate with your child.

Pick your battles. A tee-shirt really isn’t worth getting into a fight with your daughter.

I think people are being really harsh with you! I doubt they’re the perfect parents.
If you were so stuck in your ways, harsh and as bad as you’ve been described you wouldn’t be on MN asking for other parents opinions.
You’ve learned from this and sure next time you’ll put things in perspective. Take the sound advice received and ignore the mean comments.

I would probably not have been fussed about the t-shirt as think its ok (healthy) for them to push parents' buttons. But thats your call and your choice. But i would be pissed off with shop assistant undermining your parenting decisions. Not his/ her place

@Squeamishmum you are a great mum, no doubt about that, it just shines through your posts. Your intentions were in the right place - to care, to protect, to help. But your behaviour came out as controlling and not supportive so that's the bit to work on in the future. It doesn't mean that you're a controlling person all the time, just that on this occasion that's what happened. I would still look deeper into controlling behaviour and possible causes and see what you discover. Could there be a link between this controlling episode and you feeling vulnerable, hopeless and anxious in the relationship with your daughter's dad for example, when he dismissed your views? (Was he emotionally abusive? Have you healed from it?)

I don't know what the shop assistant was meant to do - that's a tough one! If the shop sells these t-shirts and there is no age restriction on their sale, and your daughter wants to buy it, then it's your daughter who's the customer. And the customer is always right!

I would file this whole incident (attitude more than the actual t-shirt) as a cry for help, cry for attention, deep insecurity that requires you to work really hard on your relationship and trust. That's what the purpose of this incident was. It's an opportunity in disguise to build a stronger bond, and a sign that things have changed (again!) and parenting tricks that were effective a couple of years ago no longer work.

My 13y old daughter was wearing a gory t-shirt to a summer camp recently and I warned her that younger children at the camp might not appreciate it. She wore it anyway and I didn't argue further. As long as I gave her advice, my job is done. However advice is important! Just as long as it's supportive. If a child or parent complained to me, I would respond promptly. (Hasn't happened). If I see any gory content on her social media accounts that is public I ask her to take it down because it promotes self harm and that's not responsible. Public means everyone and that's an awful lot of sensitive people and children we should be mindful of! All that said, I worry about my daughter and I don't think it's misguided. I don't think you should treat your daughters preferences lightly either. There is a very real possibility that through gory items she is expressing her own internal pain, anxiety, fear. She may be matching what she looks like to what she feels like - confused, angry, scared. So you are right to be concerned, I think, but not right to react in a controlling way.

CorianderLord

Oh, and just wait until it goes in the wash and chuck it in the bin
Another nasty pist.
How would you like your stuff chucked out because someone else doesn't like it? I'm pretty sure you would be angry.
A ridiculous post!

You sound like you have worked out WHY you were angry, with your daughter's attitude so why not explain that to her? She is 14, not a baby so can really wear a t shirt if she likes it, however you showing her how to explain feelings/emotions is more important. Say you didn't like the way she spoke to you and ask her to not wear it around you and then drop it.

An old and very experienced teacher once told me that if you pick a fight over the small stuff, you're less likely to have to deal with bigger problems. I think his point was that you should draw a line in the full knowledge that they will push back on it, but they then know that chancing something far worse is not going to be possible.

Of course, you could end up being the unreasonable cow who can be ignored completely. It's difficult to strike a balance on this when her other parent is undermining your authority.

@Schoolisback1973, thank you

@SecretOfChange thank you for those thoughts. My marriage was very toxic and took a massive toll on my mental health. Questions you've asked me are actually pretty on the nail about being dismissed and diminished throughout the marriage - and DD tells me that ExH regularly insults me in front of her, which is difficult. If I'm honest, it does sometimes rub off on how she speaks to me - so perhaps my buttons were pushed because of that. I will be more aware of that in future as she is not her father and it is not her fault that he regularly drips venom in her ear about me.

Interesting what you say about her choice of T-shirt being a way to express things that she finds difficult to talk about. I think there may be something in that too.

It has been a pretty horrible experience posting on this thread and I was very upset and shaken up yesterday, but I'm hoping I can take some positives from it and work on my parenting.

I have apologised to my daughter about my behaviour in the shop and we had a nice chat about it.

These things are never black and white and we're always learning.

Thank you

Nice update OP.
We all get it wrong sometimes. Sorry some of the responses have been painful or excessively judgemental.
I'm in the naughty corner from being in the camp of allowing an item to be 'accidentally damaged'. But am unrepentant. I fessed up to the owner of the t-shirt what had happened fairly recently and she didn't remember the t-shirt, so hardly emotionally damaged by it!

That's a lovely update, OP.

Parenting teenagers can be tough at the best of times, never mind when you've got someone else undermining you every step of the way.

I think you have handled this thread really well OP

I think that on the whole, this saga will have helped. You've gained a lot of insights into your own reactions, you've spoken to your DD and you are fully aware of the negative influences in her life. Going forward I bet you will be the steady point in her life, and she will come to realise how toxic her father is. Ultimately this is going to be a win for you, even if it doesn't feel like it now.

@Aweebawbee I absolutely agree with that.
It's one of the reasons school have strict dress codes. If you get control of the small things, the big ones follow.

@SqueamishMum - sorry this thread was so hard for you. Not all responses are useful, and not everyone who is posting here makes sense. Let it go. But maybe also look into your anxiety levels generally? It's not unusual to have anxiety following an abusive relationship. Anxiety is one of the common causes of controlling behaviour so if you work on your anxiety you will reduce the risk of controlling behaviours too. Not to mention that life is generally more pleasant when you're happy and relaxed!

It's not quite your situation but you may be interested to know that young people who identify as goth and emo are more likely to self-harm and have suicidal thoughts. Importantly though, choosing to wear these clothes does NOT cause self-harm or depression, it's usually the opposite, the person has depression already and then chooses clothes that reflect their inner world and identity. Wearing clothes that match their personality makes them feel better and more at peace with who they really are.

Finally don't just think of what happened as something negative - crisis like this prompts you to explore your relationship with your daughter and enables communication that wouldn't have happened otherwise. Onwards and upwards from here!

Lots of love x

@SqueamishMum frankly you sound brilliant! And absulotely, one fuck up does not a rubbish parent make.

My DD is on the precipice of her teenage years and I expect to fuck up occassionally too. I'm very aware that as a vulnerable teenager myself I was given no boundaries or limits, or guidance, or anything really, and it lead to many years of hell and sexual abuse to me by adults, which has since taken the rest of my life to address & try to recover from.

Learning how/where to set the boundaries, where to guide, where to stand back etc - well its a road paved with many challenges. I'm bound to be fucking up occassionally too.

On the bright side, both DD's seem to have accepted that they can only get tattoos and piercings once they are 34, so clearly I'm doing something right

To everyone that's replied since my last post, thank you so much for your kindness.

@SecretOfChange - thank you so much, your insights have really helped on this thread and given me food for thought. You've identified a few things that are pretty spot on but I've chosen not to go into on this thread - but it's really useful to have those insights and be able to take a look at those things in private.

@TheClitterati - I am so sorry that happened to you. Much love to you. Sounds like you're doing a great job.

@Squeamishmum, I wish I could give you a big hug. Teens are hard work, and you never know if you got it right for years.

I'm onto my 4th and I finally have a chilled out one. What's more likely is that I'm more chilled out and they reflect that.

Hi OP - what you say since your update makes a lot of sense and it seems like maybe in a way this squeamish tshirt is a way of expressing her anger at her dad/you etc.

FWIW, my DF (now sadly deceased) didn't have any contact with me until I was 13 after he left when parents divorced when I was 5, I'm lucky that my DM and the family generally never bad mouthed him and when I had contact at 13 he didn't bad mouth my DM etc. Just shows how immature and inappropriate your ex-DH is.

It's good you had a chat to her too - lines of communication being open is really important. Good luck

Pick your battles.

First and foremost your daughter has expressly gone against your wishes, regardless if she agrees with you, you are the parent and whilst you can (and should) be open to discuss things at the end of the day you should have final say. If it were me, having already said how I feel, the T-shirt would go missing while in the wash never to be seen again.

Er yes yabu. It's a tshirt , she did not actually put the persons arm in the blender or murder someone. Seriously, pick your battles , this isn't one of them. Like getting into underage sex, drugs, bullying, swearing , hurting someone else maybe but a tshirt ? She isn't a baby anymore and you need to loosen the reigns else she'll rebel all the more and much worse things than this and won't tell you. That puts distance between you. If she was in danger and didn't tell u because she was scared ?

You're her mum. You set the rules. It's about time parents remembered this.

Choose your battles ... this one isn’t worth the energy

I think I'd take issue with the shop, that seems a bit out of order. I'd have a chat with the manager and say it put you in a very difficult position and you don't think their employee should have given it to your daughter if you made it clear she wasn't to have it.
Personally, as far as your daughter goes it seems to me that by taking such an inflexible stand you're giving loads of power to your daughter and your ex. Unless it's really vile (and I agree, a pic would have helped) I would let it go. Otherwise your ex will be able to undermine you, your daughter annoy you and everybody else play you. None of which is particularly positive for you. Lose the battle, win the war, etc.