In thinking delaying exams won’t help?

[NotDonna]

I’m posting to try to understand the issues better. Delaying exams seems futile. It won’t really address the inequalities in education. Wouldn’t CAGs be fairer? Are ranking, algorithms etc really necessary?

I’m not a teacher but used to work in HE many moons ago. On my course students were assessed by lecturers continuously. Essays and exam papers were internally moderated and then externally moderated. Im pretty sure there was no ranking or algorithms involved. I know Gove put an end to continuous assessment (foolish I think). But that would then provide ‘evidence’, wouldn’t it?

I’m trying to understand why this can’t happen with schools. Are the number of kids just too huge to moderate thoroughly? Take too long?
Would the ‘evidence’ be an issue leading to teachers constantly having to test, test, test. What was wrong with continuous assessment?
It’s difficult but I don’t see the solution being delayed exams. But again, maybe I’m missing something?
YABU - delaying exams is the best option
YANBU - delaying exams still won’t be fair

It must be hard for teachers because they only had less than 2 terms for year 10s and then the rest of the coming year, if kids can even go to school for the whole year. Assessing needs kids to be in school so teachers can assess them. At least delaying exams might mean they get a chance to cover the syllabus. Very hard and tiring on the kids though. So I can't decide which to vote!

Yes, toast they may get a chance to cover the syllabus and go some way to getting those kids who missed out up to speed. But at the same time it gives those who are up to speed extra revision time. So the inequality is still there. I’m possibly being naive in believing there is a way to lessen that inequality. I think our whole system needs an overhaul though not just during covid.

YABU. My DS and all the kids who have done the minimum during lockdown and haven't had much fron their schools will be hugely disadvantaged doing their A levels next year.

@CremeEggThief

YABU. My DS and all the kids who have done the minimum during lockdown and haven't had much fron their schools will be hugely disadvantaged doing their A levels next year.

Wouldn’t your DS prefer a CAG then? Delaying the exams may help your DS and others similar catch up IF there’s no further disruptions, but what if there are. Also, your DS and others catch up but those who are already caught up will have longer to revise/consolidate- will this be fair? I’m not sure. I agree it’d be great to cover the whole syllabus as otherwise there’s going to be gaps in learning which not only affects exam results but further study. What I don’t understand is why CAGs aren’t the way forward.

So you think the department of education aren’t thinking about this?

If you delay A levels next year that will have a knock-on effect to universities. A levels 2 months later presumably means uni start also 2 months later.

I think they have to either do them at the normal time or not at all. And have the "not at all" plan in place NOW so that schools can know in advance what they need to do for CAGs in terms of evidence etc. Then they need to make a decision on exams in plenty of time. No more last minute fannying about.

@CremeEggThief

YABU. My DS and all the kids who have done the minimum during lockdown and haven't had much fron their schools will be hugely disadvantaged doing their A levels next year.

If they (children in general, not yours specifically) have done the minimum because they couldn't be arsed then that's their problem. I don't want my son held back by extra teaching time if work he's already done because others couldn't be bothered. If they had no school input then that's different.

@BluebellsGreenbells

So you think the department of education aren’t thinking about this?

Appears not. They just say exams as usual. But who knows? Either way they need to get a wriggle on and actually make some decent decisions. Fast!! And then stick to them. What I’m interested in is how doable it actually is.

On a personal note my son would be really really cross if his post GCSE summer were to be massively shortened due to having to remain in school for late exams. But I realise he is lucky in that he was provided with sufficient input from his school that he was able to keep working through lockdown from home. Not all schools / pupils had that opportunity - and we're back to inequality again.

By doable, I mean fair and reasonably accurate CAGs.

They’re also debating cancelling exams so I think it’s all up for grabs.

Delaying will cause massive logistical issues that are hard to overcome so I’m not sure they’ll go for it. And, as you pointed out, far from narrowing the disadvantage gap experienced by pupils who have missed out over lockdown, it will provide the more advantaged kids extra time to pull ahead even further.

I don't actually know what CAG stands for, but I assuem some kind of continual assessment.

the trouble with any graded work that is not done in the lesson is that it is open to being done by parents etc, and this was one reason that they cut back on it.

I have one in year 11 and one is year 13, so this is massively effecting us.
I would like to see mini exams done through the year. Trust the schools to set and mark them accurately and then if the final exams can't go ahead, there is evidence of what the kids can do, and those mini papers can be moderated if needed.
The trouble is always that it is subjective. Last year ds was predicted a 5/6 in his English all through year 11. In the exam he got an 8. There was nothing special about the work he did in the exam, but because this new grading system is relatively new, it was hard to the teachers to pitch it. They have only had 2 years of it, as this year's didn't happen, so I am not confident of their ability to predict GCSE accurately.
My ds in year 13 really struggled through lockdown, and he is a bright student. My dd is year 11 was able to get on with it and do all the work set.
Some kids have found it much harder than others.

I don't have any easy answers, other than I have told my ds he needs to keep up a high average all year in case exams don't go ahead.

As to fairness. The system is never fair. One child sits in a class of 20 with no disruption in a small private setting. One child sits in a class of 30, with supply teachers who don't know the subject and the lessons constantly disrupted by kids with behaviour issues, and then goes home to a home where there is nowhere to do home work, or where they are the carer for a parent or younger siblings, or in a B&B with whole family in one room, etc etc.

Unmoderated CAGS won’t work again, we would see even more grade inflation.

So what about the children's whos schools provided little work for the children during lock down with also very little feedback. That was my son's school. I did complain as did many other parents but nothing changed . My son has been bored witless and as much as i tried to motivate him it was very hard so i have paid for a maths tutor throughout that was also financially hard as i had a major drop in income too. Also what about the children who were anxious , were carers or needed extra support given at school . Im sure there are also many mums and dads on here who both had to work or single mums who worked throughout. This is not about lazy kids its about families and how hard this was individually which then impacted on the support parents could give . Unpopular as this may be i think teachers having 13 weeks off a year should now be changed . This would help these children but also working parents . I do not know any other job with that much holiday!

A problem I see is that, with local lockdowns, students will miss out on teaching and will be disadvantaged in exams.

CAGs = Centre Assessed Grades. What happened this year for both GCSEs & A levels. There’d need to be better stipulation of how kids are graded as it seems there were schools/centres doing different things. And there’d need to be moderation. No idea how grade boundaries would fit in.
I agree, it’s never fair but we can’t allow this gap to widen further & further due to covid. If at all possible.

@Ellmau

Unmoderated CAGS won’t work again, we would see even more grade inflation.

Absolutely, that’s why I mentioned moderation. But I’m not sure why the CAGs weren’t moderated this year. Seems logical unless it’s logistics.

@NotDonna

CAGs = Centre Assessed Grades. What happened this year for both GCSEs & A levels. There’d need to be better stipulation of how kids are graded as it seems there were schools/centres doing different things. And there’d need to be moderation. No idea how grade boundaries would fit in. I agree, it’s never fair but we can’t allow this gap to widen further & further due to covid. If at all possible.

I don't think they can do it again. The temptation to inflate grades is too high. If you have a chidl who is borderline, you will always put them up.

This year, they thought their assessed grades were only part of the process. Next year they will know that this is it.
Besides, as I said before, they are really not that accurate.
I don;t think ds got the predicted grade on more than half his subjects at GCSE (and yes, I do know that precicted grade and CAG are not the same thing)

Surely the point is to allow schools enough time to teach the full curriculum - so the students get the complete education they deserve - or as much as they possibly can. I know that it's generally accepted that the whole point to education is to sit and pass and exams - but actually being educated is important too.
Trying to make up four months of missed education in one academic year seems unreasonable - if they can extend this year to cover more of what they missed then this should be done if at all possible.

Continuous assessment => grade inflation.

Might reducing the syllabus for one year be a better solution? Don't know.

Son in year 12 and his friends, from range of different (state) schools, all worked pretty steadily through April, May, June. Might be different for GCSE, but in sixth form quite a lot of work is self-directed anyway.

Yes, venus. It’d be lovely if learning was for learnings sake.

Absolutely, that’s why I mentioned moderation. But I’m not sure why the CAGs weren’t moderated this year. Seems logical unless it’s logistics.

When we were first asked to provide CAGs we were told that they would be moderated and if results seemed to be 'odd' then evidence would be requested by the boards. This never happened due to the algorithm being used instead of the grades that I and all my colleagues spent forever working on, sweating and stressing over

@BluebellsGreenbells

So you think the department of education aren’t thinking about this?

Sure they've got everything under control!

@VenusOfWillendorf I totally agree. I understand why, but am also concerned that the emphasis is firmly on taking and passing exams- rather than being educated.

The problem is that there is no easy or simple answer to the problems in education since March, the problems we face now, and the unknown problems that will come up over the next few months. It's chaos, and instead of admitting we are in an impossible situation that needs thoughtful and radical solutions, the government are making half assed, badly timed and ill thought out plans and promises.

It's a shit show, and it's about time they admitted this and faced the fact that there are no easy solutions!

Is moderation possible cricketballs?
I can’t fathom why that wasn’t done. Seems so obvious. What am I missing?