In thinking delaying exams won’t help?

[NotDonna]

I’m posting to try to understand the issues better. Delaying exams seems futile. It won’t really address the inequalities in education. Wouldn’t CAGs be fairer? Are ranking, algorithms etc really necessary?

I’m not a teacher but used to work in HE many moons ago. On my course students were assessed by lecturers continuously. Essays and exam papers were internally moderated and then externally moderated. Im pretty sure there was no ranking or algorithms involved. I know Gove put an end to continuous assessment (foolish I think). But that would then provide ‘evidence’, wouldn’t it?

I’m trying to understand why this can’t happen with schools. Are the number of kids just too huge to moderate thoroughly? Take too long?
Would the ‘evidence’ be an issue leading to teachers constantly having to test, test, test. What was wrong with continuous assessment?
It’s difficult but I don’t see the solution being delayed exams. But again, maybe I’m missing something?
YABU - delaying exams is the best option
YANBU - delaying exams still won’t be fair

Lots of families will already have booked holidays after the previously published Contingency Day of 29 June 2021, or moved this year’s holiday to next summer from early July. I believe all Leicestershire schools and private schools break up early July- is Williamson using their break up dates when he says exams won’t go into the summer holidays.
Who would refund families if they gave to cancel their holiday?

We have moved our holiday from this summer to next summer so I hope the exams aren't delayed even though it'll be the normal summer holidays as I want DS to have time to relax with his friends before the other year groups break up as a lot of them won't be together for 6th form.

I’d choose more time for exams but the holiday has been booked yet so it’s no biggie. Ds has a trip planned o/s with friends but not booked.

I’d also like them to look at reduction.

But all of this quickly. Hanging around will make it worse.

What stresses me somewhat is that mocks could count for a lot. Many students have missed content / schooling according to R4. Not much time to turn it around.

Mocks are usually sat in December aren't they? I'm assuming that students could well end up using those grades if it all falls apart again. But won't the students be behind where they should be? Does each school create its own mock paper or do they use previous actual papers?

Does each school create its own mock paper or do they use previous actual papers?

Could be either at A-level, more usually actual past papers at GCSE. Suspect it will be more actual past papers this year for evidence and proper grade boundaries.

@treeeeemendous

Mocks are usually sat in December aren't they? I'm assuming that students could well end up using those grades if it all falls apart again. But won't the students be behind where they should be? Does each school create its own mock paper or do they use previous actual papers?

Mocks might be sat in December. Or January, February or March...any time the school fancies.

The school might make up their own paper, Using only questions covering content taught already. Or they might use an actual past paper. They may mark harshly, to give lazy cohorts a kick up the bum to revise before their real exams. Or they may be generous, to boost the confidence of the students. They can do what they like.

Which is why using mock grades is a complete nonsense, as each school can do them how they like, making comparisons pointless.

I wish exam boards luck finding experienced markers willing to work in the summer holidays, given they didn't pay furlough this year.

Modge interesting. Do they tend to stick to the same approach each year?

I mean each school. Will ask someone at school next opportunity.

@MarshaBradyo

I mean each school. Will ask someone at school next opportunity.

I’m not sure to be honest, I am primary rather than secondary and haven’t asked secondary colleagues that exact question! I’d imagine so though, unless the head of department changes. I suspect in some schools you could even have different subjects doing it differently!

I actually think that the issue isn't the exams themselves. It is perfectly possible to have a safe socially distanced exam. It is also perfectly possible to use alternative spaces, hire more staff (at gov expense please) and spread the exams out, so fewer in a room. There is no reaosn why exams could not go ahead.

The issue is that in most schools, the run up to exams is key for the success of the students. teachers go to huge lengths to do extra classes, revision sessions and subject support, particularly to those students who need it, which is often those who do not have the support or space at home.
It is not possible to have, for example, schools closed in May and then exams in June. That would increase the gap between the advantaged and disadvantaged enormously.

If it were only the exams themselves which were the issue, then it is also possible to do exams remotely, which is done in some professional and uni contexts. This requires huge amounts of trust though.

I have yr 11 and yr 13 dc this year. They have had no learning since March. The school said they were busy with key worker kids and had no online set up until July. From them they both got one email per subject on a Monday, no work to send back because the teachers would not be marking or sending feedback. They had about 3 hours in the school setting per week for the last 3 weeks of term where they sat in a mixed ability group and were taught very very generically.

Prior to this they both had period 6 every single day after school because the school said it did not have enough teaching time to get through the triple science syllabus. I don't know how school will catch up, delaying the exams will help a little but not if it has a knock on effect on uni. I just hope our dc and schools know as soon as possible so they can prepare accordingly. Surely the best solution would be to have 50% cag (moderated) and 50% exam. The debacle from this year is going to massively impact the two cohorts next year and it has to be addressed quickly.

powergone
Wow, that is truly crap.
I really, really would love some of these schools to be accountable for their crap delivery. It was not necessary and has made things so much worse for some.

Just to contrast. I have 2 - going in to year 11 and year 13.
Both have had a full timetable provision, since day 1. In their last coupel of days at school they checked that every student understood how to access the on-line provision they were ALREADY ready to use, having started setting it up as soon as lockdown looked likely.
State schools.
Work handed in, assessements including some end of year 'exams' all marked and returned.
Pretty much all the lessons were online as powerpoints or recorded by teachers. Timetable given out every Monday, with this weeks work, homework and deadlines in it.
Emails from school to us when our year 12 didn't return work in time.

Year 12 had university entrance advice and zoom meeting for parents to explain that process and encourage them to help their students ot begin the application process etc etc.
Teams was used for tutor time and connecting with students, and my year 7, who has anxiety, had a weekly email from head of year 7 to see how she was doing.

While I am very worried about this year, I am pretty confident that my year 11 has not missed too much, and while my year 13 is worse off, that is his own fault for doing the bare minimum.

Both schools remained open for key workers kids. Both schools had them in for one day per week in June and July, and did intensive lessons, my year 11 had one lesson in every subject, and they were good lessons. My year 13 had one day in each A level subject, whole day, pretty intense, but they covered/reviewed a lot and it was pretty helpful. Even my year 7 had one day in school, just for them to reconnect before the summer holidays.

I am appalled by many of the comments on here about how poor the schools have been. It was not necessary.
The only issues should have been around internet access and technology, not around provision from the school. That should have been there.

I think the schools should be held to account, but I alos think that the government should have taken a lead. There was a whole load of crap around online and safeguarding and marking etc, which, without guidance and a clear lead, was then all boycotted by unions, to the detriment out all our kids.

Not a teacher but a parent of an about-to-become year 11.

I am absolutely outraged that the so-called consultation was hamstrung. It’s obvious to any layperson that reducing the expected content is a good option. Yes it’s complicated in that exam papers may have to be redesigned. Yes it’s possible schools should decide topics rather than kids in the exam. What’s wrong with open book exams where formulae, set texts or periodic tables are provided? But for the consultation to start on the basis that there would be zero reduction in content was nonsense. Even those kids who have already been taught all the content would benefit by being able to skip revising some areas. It would be helpful if DoE and Ofqual recognised that the set content in GCSEs and A levels are not carved into tablets of stone but are ever-changing and arguably in many cases arbitrary. I’m sure there are many creative ways to assess this cohort that don’t involve them sitting the same exams in the same way as usual. Doing the same as usual - but a bit later - will benefit some kids but not others - and brings with it a whole additional set of logistical problems.

Whatever the solution, my number 1 concern is that my DS is back at school this week and doesn’t know when his exams are or what he will be examined on or how he will be examined. That is the real scandal. The dithering of so-called experts and professionals will negatively impact the mental health of these students and this is what will damage their life chances.

The dithering of so-called experts and professionals will negatively impact the mental health of these students and this is what will damage their life chances

I have 2 year 11 and a year 13

They haven’t had any impact of their mental health and they aren’t worried about the next year as they understand everyone is in the same boat.

If they don’t get what they need, they can retake, or make other choices. I’m not worried about it in the slightest and neither are they!

Bluebells I agree. I find it worrying that there is such a massive 'they will be ruined for life' narratvie round all of this.
I know plenty of people for whom it didn't all go as planned, either at GCSE or A level, or even later. Life doesn't stop. There are endless possibilities, life is not dependent on one set of exams.
Neither my year 11 nor my year 13 are particularly worried in that sense, we have always had the attitude, do your best, keep as many options open for yourself as possible etc.

But I can still feel outraged at the gov lack of thought on this, and at the total mess it is becoming. I am outraged at the way some schools got away with doing nothing, hoping it would pass quickly, and I am outraged at the lack of planning.

and I should also say, not being in school has had a negative impact on my year 7's health, she is not doing well. I am gald she is going back.

I don't think they can do it again.
The temptation to inflate grades is too high. If you have a chidl who is borderline, you will always put them up.

Can we all not bear the thought that a handful of kids might get a grade higher than they might have? Is it so terrible that, instead of making this a hugely disadvantaged year group, we accept that some of them will come out with better grades than they would have if things had been normal? I know there's no easy answer but I wish we could stop worrying that someone night get up graded.

In terms of how much they have missed, my DS is Y11 and he is massively behind. School set the work and provided support but he struggles even when he is in school and so missing that face to face contact was a real problem. I feel really sorry for teachers having to manage this massive range of ability and how much kids did/didn't do in lockdown.

@HUCKMUCK

*I don't think they can do it again. The temptation to inflate grades is too high. If you have a chidl who is borderline, you will always put them up.*

Can we all not bear the thought that a handful of kids might get a grade higher than they might have? Is it so terrible that, instead of making this a hugely disadvantaged year group, we accept that some of them will come out with better grades than they would have if things had been normal? I know there's no easy answer but I wish we could stop worrying that someone night get up graded.

In terms of how much they have missed, my DS is Y11 and he is massively behind. School set the work and provided support but he struggles even when he is in school and so missing that face to face contact was a real problem. I feel really sorry for teachers having to manage this massive range of ability and how much kids did/didn't do in lockdown.

I agree

If a child is borderline they could fuck it up completely or knock it out of the park, which child do you pick to be the one who fucks up

friend of mine Told me dd was ‘lucky’ because she didn’t take her A levels...I’ll absolutely guarantee if it was one of her 3 A* children who had been ‘downgraded’ that she wouldn’t have been coming out with that comment...but mate, if its your child picked to be the one who fucked up????

Ds1 got E in his AS level...he got an A in the A level

My ds is going into y11 and he would much prefer the exams to remain as normal. This is because delaying the exams would mean delaying work experience and the holidays. If exams were kept the same, then similar proportions of children would get the same grade due to the way grade boundaries work. Children could then learn the rest of the syllabus if they haven't already done so for their chosen A level subjects before the next year starts. If exams were delayed it would also be more tiring and the results may not be released on time. CAGs may result in similar amounts of grade inflation that happened this year, devaluing the achievements of kids who would have gone on to get top grades if exams took place.

I’m pro exams rather than CAGS

Interesting to hear Ofqual talk on R4 about the solutions they put forward. None involved cancelling exams last time. I guess could be annoyed to take algorithm hit to inform everyone it was Secretary of State decision.

We do need the top decision makers to get on and make right decisions. So they’d better get together and sort it out.

Why do people keep saying things like "they are all in the same boat". This is really really not the case. The disadvantage faced by students who weren't provided with decent, or indeed any, online learning from school, or who do not have a home life conducive to learning is enormous.

Add onto this that some schools will shut down due to local lockdowns over the next academic year.

Young people are absolutely not in all the same boat! I'm not going to pretend that there is a simple solution but to just pay lip service to disadvantaged students is shortsighted.

As a teacher, I agree with absolutely everything you say namechange!

@Piggywaspushed

As a teacher, I agree with absolutely everything you say namechange!

Thanks @Piggywaspushed Always hard to know whether it’s just parental emotion taking over.