To think going on holiday at the moment is selfish and unnecessary

[OverTheRainbow88]

I think it’s totally unnecessary and selfish for people to go abroad on holiday at the moment. I’m not talking about people that need to go abroad for other reasons, such as ,work or to see ill relatives etc. I think getting our children back to school trumps a holiday.
However, lots of family and friends are going away abroad for holidays, do others agree with me or am I being unreasonable?

*It does, whether you can see it or not.

My activities do too.

I'm not picking on you. It is just a fact.

The more we do collectively, the more transmission*

Well, I don't go to pubs. Haven't been to a restaurant since before lockdown. The only people I visit are family, and obviously I would be quarantining if required. I rarely use public transport. Go to the shop when needed, but would get a contactless delivery if I had been away instead.

I can't see how me taking a trip away would affect community transmission more than someone that has been home, socialising with people in pubs and taking advantage of the eat out to help out scheme.

My one (fictional) trip away with masks and social distancing is much less of a risk than what is going on in this country.

Whether you can see it or not.

I think you are selfish and unnecessary for condemning countries and the families who live there who are hugely reliant on tourism to poverty, debt and in some cases death. How about that?

And another national lockdown caused by a covid infection spike will devastate the fragile economies, not to mention the tens of thousands of deaths covid will cause, and the cost to the healthcare systems of those that are seriously ill in the long term. India you need to do the maths.A sluggish tourist trade footfall will never cover the enormous costs of secondary national lockdowns. It is basic economics.

Yes some areas are reliant on tourism, but they will have other industries that they rely on too - fishing, local commerce etc all of whom will cease in a lockdown for them.

It will be an unmitigated disaster for some countries.

Most affected countries simply can not afford another lockdown, and will suffer horrendously. With all due respect I don't think you have thought this through - at all.

@IndiaMay

I think you are selfish and unnecessary for condemning countries and the families who live there who are hugely reliant on tourism to poverty, debt and in some cases death. How about that?

But they shouldn't be dependent on it. It's tourism that has weakened the economy, not a lack of.

This is sadly the result when local communities turn into a homogenous economy with little diversification to meet the needs of tourists like us.

It's like a drug. It's killing you, but you can't stop it.

Sustainable tourism is the way forward, but people won't like that because it means foreign holidays will become more expensive and less frequent.

@OverTheRainbow88

I do also think it’s unfair on the countries we are going to. Lots of my family live in Spain. They had a really strict lockdown, barely went outside and now they say all their sacrifices are being ruined by tourists.

I don't doubt that many who live in the UK in tourist spots think that also so do you mean no holidays anywhere or just where your family live.

But they shouldn't be dependent on it

But they are. That it the situation. Boycotting foreign holidays will not create sustainable tourism. It will just mean families struggle, they lose everything, they starve.

In your ideal world yes sustainable tourism sounds great but it's in no way realistic.

midle It was definitely my experience, we went to Cornwall, Devon and live in a beauty spot that these thousands of tourists each year, and everyone was being very careful.

I wish people would just listen. The risks to overseas holidays that are not present in a trip down to Cornwall are the flights, busy packed and hot airports, transit buses and the sheer volume of people in one place, it is NOT the destination country per se. The destination country no doubt will be taking every precaution possible, it is getting there (for the last time)

@TrustTheGeneGenie we do need to rethink tourism. We have already ruined so many economies and cultures around the world.

Cornwall is a very good example actually. Consider how many young people are leaving because there is a lack of steady work, because they can't afford to live in the communities they were born in, all because of tourism.

The Scilly isles is a beautiful, beautiful place. It also has among the highest poverty rates in the UK. Because they are almost entirely reliant on tourism. Locals can't afford to live. Houses and shops are priced to the wealthy tourists and not the poorer locals.

@OverTheRainbow88

I do also think it’s unfair on the countries we are going to. Lots of my family live in Spain. They had a really strict lockdown, barely went outside and now they say all their sacrifices are being ruined by tourists.

I don't think you can blame tourists. When I was there I was surprised at the lack of social distancing, I even saw two people shaking hands. I really don't know where Spain has gone wrong? as you say they had the strictest lockdown in Europe and for what?! I feel terribly sad for those who rely on tourist or their livelihoods.

If you could go overseas without using flights, airports and travelling around it would be slightly safer, * *

You can.

You can use euro tunnel where you stay in Maine your own private vehicle the whole time.

You can use Eurostar where you must sit SDed away from other travellers it side your household.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

But they shouldn't be dependent on it

But they are. That it the situation. Boycotting foreign holidays will not create sustainable tourism. It will just mean families struggle, they lose everything, they starve.

In your ideal world yes sustainable tourism sounds great but it's in no way realistic.

Yes but they're dependant on it because of us (by us, read wealthy predominantly western nations) wanting holidays.

The answer is not to keep doing more damage, just as the answer to addiction is not to keep drinking.

It will be tough but it will be so much better in the long run if local economies can move away from tourism.

Interesting that camping in France helps with PTSD, but somewhere else in the UK wouldn't have the same effect. I'll have to be sure to let the patients know.

the flights, busy packed and hot airports, transit buses and the sheer volume of people in one place

Everyone I know that has flown recently has remarked on how quiet the airports are and how few people are on the flight.

I live 2 miles from an airport, and flight numbers are still well below what they were pre-lockdown.

aragog yes you can do that, but you can't get to the greek islands or most destinations that way. Most rely on air travel as the distances are just too far or too remote.

I think it would probably have been better that the world by and large stayed at home this holiday season. But I don't think people individually are being unreasonable to travel within the guidelines. And I did myself. Not without questioning whether I should though. So I didn't vote, because yanbu but people also travelled to do their bit to prop up the tourism industry, to prop up their well-being, and they were given mixed messages by their politicians and scientists. Because there are no right answers, just competing risks.

change try telling that to the people that have been travelling in and out of the greek islands. SD is simply not possible.

I'm intending to go on a long weekend away at the end of september so I don't agree with you op. As long as people go into quarantine if they have to then its ok

@OverTheRainbow88

Is it also selfish to visit a local pub? Go for a meal at a restaurant? Go to the cinema? Travel on a train? Visit the zoo in the next town?

What about going on holiday to Cornwall or the Lake District? What about catching the train to London for a long weekend? How about spending a lazy day at a country park or by the beach?

All these things carry levels of risk and are all things which could risk increased transmission.

[quote Lockheart]@TrustTheGeneGenie we do need to rethink tourism. We have already ruined so many economies and cultures around the world.

Cornwall is a very good example actually. Consider how many young people are leaving because there is a lack of steady work, because they can't afford to live in the communities they were born in, all because of tourism.

The Scilly isles is a beautiful, beautiful place. It also has among the highest poverty rates in the UK. Because they are almost entirely reliant on tourism. Locals can't afford to live. Houses and shops are priced to the wealthy tourists and not the poorer locals.[/quote]
I'm not disagreeing, I'm sure we do, I'm just saying it won't happen. Especially now. We've all sacrificed too much already - I think asking people to sacrifice their holidays as well won't go down well tbh.

If someone said to me, well, next year, your holiday is going to cost 3 X as much, you can only have one, and it's going to be in the arse end of nowhere, somewhere not commercialised or reliant on tourism - frankly at this point I'd tell them to get fucked. I wouldn't be on my own in that either.

I don't think given how terribly we have handled it it's bad to go on holiday, but the excuses for it rather than I just wanted a holiday are nauseating.

try telling that to the people that have been travelling in and out of the greek islands. SD is simply not possible

Umm. I would happily say it to anyone. I can only base what I know on what I see and have been told.

If there is an issue in Greece, that's something the Greek authorities need to deal with.

Friendsofthenearth

I never said you would travel to Greece that way.

You mentioned 'abroad' and I responded to that.

However it is perfectly possible to travel abroad to many other places in Europe without using a plane or an airport - France, Belgium, Spain, Germany, Italy, to name but a few.

I think the very definition of holiday is probably ‘selfish and unnecessary’ corona or not. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t a lovely thing that people enjoy.

Home or abroad? What's the real difference? If it's unreasonable to holiday abroad then isn't it also unreasonable to holiday at all? How do you decide between holidays and days out? Theme parks, beaches both outdoors and often overcrowded? Just curious

Why only abroad? Is foreign Coronavirus worse?

There are zero recorded incidences of superspreading events on aircraft. People should stop making up science for themselves. And if tourists were the main cause of Spain’s problems, then why were the main issues not on the tourist islands and in the South?? Something tells me Spanish citizens’ behaviour contributed to Spain’s problems. Maybe allowing nightclubs to reopen was a bit f*cking dim. As for selfishness, someone who seems to think the only issue the world is facing is covid 19 and that therefore there are simple solutions to the issues we face, is a selfish, blinkered idiot, too.