If you can do your job from home then it can be done from India...

[Bewareoftheblob]

This is what my brother has been told by his employers. He works in a small office in a city centre and can work remotely. He admits that their efficiency, especially in terms of the quality of customer service, has been compromised by the team working from home.

They've all been told to go back to the office from mid September, which he is reluctant to do, mainly because he dislikes the commute and has enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler.

When he (and, I think, some other team members) requested an extension to working from home, they were told in no uncertain terms to get back in to the office, and that they should be wary because 'if you can do your job from home, it can probably be done from India', which my brother has taken as a threat of redundancy.

They were also asked if they didn't feel guilty about the impact they were having on the economy and other people's livelihood - I assume they meant transport/Costa/Pret etc. They were asked to have more of a community spirit. It's a pretty informal place, not very 'corporate' which is why I assume it's been worded in this way!

What do you think? I'm torn to be honest, I totally understand why my brother wants to work from home, but whilst I don't think his company expressed themselves very well, I can see their point too.

So I suppose it's more are they being unreasonable rather than am I being unreasonable!

My current job was out sourced within UK to a cheaper location/company before Covid

During Covid have been WFH
Some colleagues have been furloughed or made redundant

We are expected to return to our work place in September. I anticipate that some colleagues will request to continue to WFH, because those who do not live locally wish to continue with the benefits of WFH

The employer is only looking at their own cost cutting, resources & this has been made clear to us well before Covid

Nobody is irreplaceable

English is taught across Europe from primary school age. In fact my sil granddaughter in rural Romania will start school next year. If she goes to her village school she will learn german or she can go to the next village over and learn English. My sons Croatian girlfriend speaks several languages of which English is one. If you heard she speak you would never know she is croatian as she speaks English with an American accent.
There is not a lack of English speakers in Central Europe. In fact if jobs started to go to these places for remote workers even more would learn English as they would see it as another opportunity as they have so few in their countries.

So in my industry (insurance), I am seeing some increasingly cynical thinking on home working. Amongst the considerations are pushing people to work from home. Not making people home based, but having very small numbers of office desks so people "choose" to work from home- reducing office costs, but without incurring the costs of formal home working, giving a financial benefit to the company but not to the individual. Yes we will all spend less on commuting, but costs will rise when it starts to get cold. The other "opportunity" firms are seeing is cutting wages as people can work from home, i.e. if you do not need to commute then we do not need to "pay" you to come into a city center so we will offer you less pay. This can work well for us all, but be aware, many organisations are actively looking to cut costs and office space, and Covid provides cover to make us take the costs of this.

You sound more jealous than anything

What a stupid classist thing to say, you know nothing about me! My focus is on those millions who will suffer. You seem to think we can magically restructure everything within short time frames and it’ll all just snap back with barely any problems! Do you realise how many have lost their jobs already? What do you think the millions of cleaners will do? I guess you think they should ‘adapt’. You’re selfish, like so many others who stood clapping for the NHS while they scoffed their faces not seeing the connection.

Your post does sound just one step removed from the British stereotype of tourists shouting in English at foreigners in the hope that the decibel level will make them understand!
I don’t know how you got that impression but I don’t shout and I’m not impolite. I speak normally but I’m rarely understood by non native English speakers. I find that the staff who end up helping me on the phone sound like they have a better grasp of English. While those who tend to hang up on me don’t seem to speak English very well. Even American people don’t understand me if I don’t make an effort to speak more clearly than I would in my natural accent. It’s not unusual for non native speakers to struggle with accents.

if you do not need to commute then we do not need to "pay" you to come into a city center so we will offer you less pay
I’d be happy with that compromise. I get the same disposable income and don’t have to commute, the employer saves money. Win win.

Very unprofessional of the business and racist. Implying that they wouldn't pay fairly for labour if it was in India; implying that somehow a lesser-service implies it could be carried out in India.
If the 'company' actually said that, your DB should speak to his union.
Businesses make decisions that are best for the business. They always have done.
If they're trying to 'threaten' staff to act a certain way, it implies they need those staff. Otherwise, they wouldn't need to threaten. They'd just restructure and make people redundant.
Taking jobs offshore isn't always easier, more efficient or cheaper. Hence why companies haven't done it in the first place.
Also, lots of companies are shifting to WFH, ironically, including government agencies (yes, whilst they tell everyone else to get back in the office, they've already told their staff they will be WFH until at least 2021).
But since the Govt is all over MSM today telling people they can't WFH, I imagine we're going to have lots of these threads popping up to support the Govt's stance.

Adwodeabo Less pay but you’ll need a good broadband service, a decent computer if you don’t have one, you’ll be paying for heating most of the day through winter too.

What a stupid classist thing to say, you know nothing about me!

and you know nothing about me, my industry and my work situation 🤷

Thankfully cleaning companies are already adapting indeed - many suffered from the actual lockdown and the closure of public buildings or the entertainment industry, not from a shift in work practice...

You might dislike progress, it won't change it happening.

If they're trying to 'threaten' staff to act a certain way

They’re telling staff to come to work

I don’t like the way they’ve expressed it at all but if the company want their staff back then back they will have to go whether they are enjoying being at home or not.

You might dislike progress, it won't change it happening.

you have no idea if this is progress yet.

Tell me about these adaptations from cleaning companies used to servicing large businesses. Please. My friends are losing their jobs so perhaps you know something they don’t.

Your brother wants to work from home because it’s more comfortable, not because he’s actually vulnerable or at a higher risk. He knew that there was a commute when he took the job. If he doesn’t want to commute, he should move closer to work or get a job closer to home.

It’s almost like you’re ignoring the job losses that have happened already. Telling people who have suddenly lost their job, along with millions of others, to ‘adapt’ is lacking in humanity.

^They’re telling staff to come to work '
No, OP says they told staff to be wary and the staff felt threatened with redundancy.
Either the OP's DB's contract allows for WFH or it doesn't. Either the company rushed through emergency contract provision for Covid or they didn't. Either they created a precedent that could count as a substantive change to working conditions or they didn't. You don't know which it is Milly Unless you're the employer and, from reading your other posts on this thread, I'm quite sure that isn't the case. So, since you aren't the employer then all we have to rely on is the information in the OP - which states the staff felt their jobs were threatened.

If they start cutting wages for people working from home it won’t be just the cost of their season ticket that they lose.
Wages are higher in the south east as employees need to attract workers who wouldn’t be able to afford to live in the SE if they were paid the same rate as someone in Sheffield. Once the WFH model replaces office work then wages will degrease to the lowest they can get away with paying so someone working from home in their leafy surburb an hours commute from London will get the same as the person in Sheffield.
It won’t go up for the Sheffield worker to match the Surrey worker. But the complete opposite.

Of course he should get back to work.

If efficiency and customer service are down that is a very good reason for the company to want the employees in the office.
Your brother's reasons are ridiculous. He is risking his job at a time when it is difficult to find a new one.

which states the staff felt their jobs were threatened.

Because they won’t come to work and productivity is done. It’s perfectly reasonable for any company to say to its staff, come to work or you’re out of a job, happens every day

*I've had coffee brewed on my doorstep throughout lockdown. £13 once a week for two coffees and cakes, and he's there for five minutes for me, and usually a queue of suburban passers-by.

His service is so popular that he sells out of slots on Mondays and Fridays, operating 9-4. Let's say £36/hour, times, leaving a lunch hour and moving between bookings. About £216 a day before costs - and that's assuming a fairly low rate of bookings, when I know he's really busy.

And he doesn't even do sandwiches*

That's great, but completely irrelevant to the discussion, which is about the poster's claim that city centre cafes could be profitable by delivering individual cups of coffee to homes in the suburbs.

Those working from home can help by supporting local business instead. It's not up to them to prop up the city centre. Local villages have been suffering from business going to city centres for years. Things will change, but I am a bit annoyed with the narrative that it's the responsibility of those who used to work in offices to flick back to work (against social distancing guidance and common sense)to prop up city centre businesses. This is flawed logic anyway. There's no guarantee this will lead to more people shopping in the city centre. Personally I'd be in and out as quickly as possible taking my own lunch in the spirit of social distancing. Things aren't normal. We are in the middle of a pandemic. It impacts everyone differently. It's not fair to put this all on office workers though. I would rather stop the spread, stop this thing earlier and support my local businesses (less crowded, can pop out at less busy times).

Nasty approach by his bosses.

The benefits of working in an office I am sure could be achieved in most cases by one or two days per week there and two or three at home. As for the argument about supporting sandwich places, if you work from home you support businesses there.

Three suggestions have been made as to why some people want a return to the office- micromanaging, keeping commercial property prices, and that if you did not need to live near an office inner city people would all move to suburbs.

It's not up to them to prop up the city centre

The city centre is also full of people that built their lives around servicing our needs. To abruptly stop, is ruining their lives. Someone very close to me is suicidal from fear of homelessness because of this. I just wish a little more understanding went their way, the lack of concern for millions losing their jobs surprises me. ‘They’ll adapt’ is unfeeling and disregards reality.

Actually companies announce redundancies or they restructure. It happens every day. That was my point. Companies don't threaten it. If they are threatening it, that's a very unprofessional approach.

@MillyMollyFarmer

It’s almost like you’re ignoring the job losses that have happened already. Telling people who have suddenly lost their job, along with millions of others, to ‘adapt’ is lacking in humanity.

but clinging onto a system making life of millions of commuters a misery isn't?

Not much care for the local independent businesses then, did you?

If you live in suburbs there aren’t always spaces free for coffee shops and cafes to spring up. Also might require councils to permit planning permission to alter building usage. That all costs money and we’re in recession technically so I imagine a lot of people might be tightening their spending. I used to buy a coffee everyday on my way to work. The nearest coffee shop to me is 20 mins walk and I’ve never been since WFH because I don’t have time and it’s not convenient.

The idea that city coffee shops and bars can just be replicated in residential areas is not going to be super easy like some suggest.