If you can do your job from home then it can be done from India...

[Bewareoftheblob]

This is what my brother has been told by his employers. He works in a small office in a city centre and can work remotely. He admits that their efficiency, especially in terms of the quality of customer service, has been compromised by the team working from home.

They've all been told to go back to the office from mid September, which he is reluctant to do, mainly because he dislikes the commute and has enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler.

When he (and, I think, some other team members) requested an extension to working from home, they were told in no uncertain terms to get back in to the office, and that they should be wary because 'if you can do your job from home, it can probably be done from India', which my brother has taken as a threat of redundancy.

They were also asked if they didn't feel guilty about the impact they were having on the economy and other people's livelihood - I assume they meant transport/Costa/Pret etc. They were asked to have more of a community spirit. It's a pretty informal place, not very 'corporate' which is why I assume it's been worded in this way!

What do you think? I'm torn to be honest, I totally understand why my brother wants to work from home, but whilst I don't think his company expressed themselves very well, I can see their point too.

So I suppose it's more are they being unreasonable rather than am I being unreasonable!

If productivity is down, then they are not unreasonable to request people to come to the office. But I think they should wait and see what it's like for Sept, when schools are open, as lack of childcare has been a huge factor in how well people have been able to work.

Guilting people about the economy is very unreasonable.
Just because you wfh doesn't mean you never go out and spend money, you are just spending it in a different place. Local shops and bars rather than city center ones, which I think is a good thing. I have been to local restaurants that I didn't even know existed.
Cutting back on travel is better for the environment - this should be positively encouraged.

The WM Govt is already considering changing planning restrictions around city centres so shops and offices can be converted into housing.
It would be possible to restructure businesses to continue WFH, to encourage local community shopping and infrastructure; to encourage distribution companies to expand.
It would be better for the environment, for quality of life and, actually, once all the teething troubles with infrastructure were smoothed out, it's better for productivity. Lots of studies show home working or/and less office working or/and shorter weeks increase productivity.

@SusansSassySidePony

Actually companies announce redundancies or they restructure. It happens every day. That was my point. Companies don't threaten it. If they are threatening it, that's a very unprofessional approach.

As much as I celebrate the new way of working, I agree with you.

Companies don't have to "ask" workers to come back, if they need them to, they just give them the date they are due back in. You wouldn't expect a school to "ask" teacher to be back only when it's convenient for them, would you?

The only thread is a simple fact, wither you can work or you are free to leave! The community spirit nonsense is completely unprofessional too.

The fact that it's in most businesses and workers to keep WFH is another issue entirely.

but clinging onto a system making life of millions of commuters a misery isn't?

Not much care for the local independent businesses then, did you?

See this is what I mean by the stupidity of making assumptions. I always supported local. I haven’t changed the way I live because I already shopped as local as possible, worked from home for over 20 years to care for my autistic family, and we practice frugal living. I’m all for moving towards a different way of life, ive been banging on about it for 30 years! I’ve spent my adulthood planning and living it. But if we all do it suddenly, it’s not going to work. It’s not a theory, we can see it happening. It was never impossible to change your lifestyle like this, using a pandemic to do it en masse, permanently, destroys the economy before we can successfully make that cultural shift work well for most people. The poorest will suffer doing this now, in this way.

He is a chancer but he's not stupid and knows what side his bread his buttered on. He will go back to the office and be glad he is employed

I wonder if it's occurred to him that his entitlement and "trying to see what he can get away with" will be remembered if it comes to redundancies? Or is he more likely to cry "unfair!!" while conveniently forgetting the part he's played in whatever happens?

Unless he's impossible to replace - and very few are - he'd do well to reconsider his approach at this time of mass job losses

If you live in suburbs there aren’t always spaces free for coffee shops and cafes to spring up

not necessarily, no, but most high streets have plenty of empty units and I think most councils would be happy to have anything in a unit and therefore allow change of use, depending on whether anyone lives above the unit.

It's disappointing/interesting/actually unsurprising (delete as applicable and based on your view of Dominic Cummings) that DC was/is supposed to be such a blue sky thinker and anarchist, yet here we have the perfect opportunity to restructure, to decentralise, etc, and they're just rushing to replicate what was there before. And what was there before meant we had children living in poverty; meant the education system failed many children; meant lots of people had poor work/life balance and resulting stress-related illnesses; meant we were damaging the environment.
It's almost as though he's actually a fan of a system that is built to enhance the wealth of the very few and keep others living in poverty. Not so much blue sky as blue rosette on the lapel.

the lack of concern for millions losing their jobs surprises me.

I am concerned for them. I just don’t want to go back to what was actually quite a shit quality of life, now I think about it.

So concerned yes. But not that ^ concerned I’m afraid.

We definitely, all, should not seek to permanently replicate what we had. I chose not to. It’s a very good aim, I agree. But you have to be smart how you shift to it, both individually and as a nation. That’s all.

MillyMollyFarmer
nice speech, but you are just forgetting one little thing: the sudden shift was not by choice, it has been made necessary by the pandemic.

Even back in January/February when it started to be very obvious the shit was about to hit the fan, many were still very reluctant to accept it was even possible. As it happened, not only is it possible, but it worked mainly really well - especially considering people were unprepared, had kids to deal with and we were on lockdown.

It is extremely unlikely that the next school year will go by without restrictions, and it would make terrible business sense not to plan for it.

It's not the new way of working that is threatening to destroy the economy, and we have no choice anyway. It still is one of the few positive coming out of this pandemic.

Well there are certain changes happening. But nothing will be drastic in the short term. We’ll have our chance at the next election to select who we think has the most progressive plan going forward, given what we’ve just been through. Sudden panic decisions are often not the best option.

it has been made necessary by the pandemic

It is not necessary now and was a brief, 3/4 month necessity. Some were always working out there.

But you have to be smart how you shift to it
I agree with this but it would be naive to think 'let's go back to normal and then work from there to have a different structure'. It will never happen.
Businesses that are adaptive and responsive have already shifted to WFH on a longer-term basis.
The focus of the Govt and the think tanks should be how to bed in those changes, which industries to fund/encourage that would support those shifts, a massive increase in WFH infrastructure and distribution centres.
They may want people to 'forget' there has been a pandemic but people can't and won't because Covid is still here. The pandemic itself is the threat to the economy.
Research has shown that people won't revert to their old lives unless they are confident about track and trace, transmission rates, etc. Few people have that confidence.
So the best way to restructure and rebuild the economy is to work from where we are, with what we have, in the expectation that DCs will be sent home at some point; that there could be another lockdown, etc - imo WFH is the best way to respond to that uncertainty. It means taking funding away from the centres and putting it out into the communities instead.

They were asked to have more of a community spirit.

Funny how there was none of that in the 80s when whole industries (and towns and cities in effect) were left to rot and we were told 'there's no such thing as society' and to adapt to change.

Now commercial property prices are under threat and the same Tories are panicking.

Do you see any of that happening at the rate needed to counter the sky rocketing unemployment? Some immediate adjustment I understand. It could work fine. My DH has been shifting to part time wfh for years. It works well in his industry. But in the OPs story, her brothers work productivity is down. That’s a scenario where people should go back to work because there’s no benefit there except to the employees time at home. You can’t ask a business, or tax payer, to fund someone’s relaxed lifestyle goals. If however you are just as productive from home, I can understand a part time wfh scenario. But we have to balance things against job losses and I don’t want to sacrifice the high numbers we are expected to in the coming months without something else there for them. It takes time to write policy and think of evidence based solutions. You and I clearly have a similar end goal in mind, but a different time span or approach to how to achieve it. I want a similar thing but only while protecting millions of low income workers livelihoods. That I think, is reasonable.

I know of a few but I am sure they are many of big names ,whose plans for at least the next 5 years do not include workers going back and things going back to the old way, every.

Without even mentioning the ones who have made the info public:
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-06/banks-are-ditching-london-offices-and-not-just-because-of-covid

You can’t ask a business, or tax payer, to fund someone’s relaxed lifestyle goals.

no one is asking them to - we are talking about WFH, not to finance furlough!

@Freddiefox

I don’t think they are being unreasonable. If productivity is down then I would want people back in.

If working from home doesn’t suit the business, and they are at risk of redundancy then surely they are right to try office working and see if things pick up.

To be fair, it should be up to the employer, although they have an obligation to make sure it's safe to return with safety measures in place for distancing etc.

I'm working from home but ultimately if my boss wants me back in the office then i'll be back in the office. We're moving to a rota basis next month, so i'll be in the office every week or so.

I do think it's going to be interesting though. Millions of miserable long term commuters who have had to suffer long commutes and packed/unreliable trains; to sit in a claustrophobic open-plan office for 40 hours a week and come home knackered after doing a job they don't particularly like but it earns them a living. For 6 months they've enjoyed a much better work/life balance and are not going to want to give that up all up overnight, especially during a pandemic as it's not like everything else is back to normal.

some of the things that get people through the drudgery of office live are looking forward to the weekend and going to concerts/gigs/festivals/nightclubs/football matches etc. All things that are still off the table.

Someone called people wanting to WFH entitled and wanting to spend more tine with family a unworthy argument for WFH.

Why is it? We should all be pushing for change that improves the lives of people and not just accept what is standard. WFH positively impacts many peoples lives for the better. We should support this.

People WFH should demonstrate their commitment in return by drving up standards.

And there has to be a middle ground that supports those who want an office life in the cities, which would support local businesses. Local businesses need to adapt to changing circumstances.

And just because one sector cannot WFH it does not mean we should prevent others from improving their lives.

Why is it? We should all be pushing for change that improves the lives of people and not just accept what is standard. WFH positively impacts many peoples lives for the better. We should support this.

Comes down to the foolishness of building a centralized economy around one city (and the other big cities). Chickens coming home to roost and they're panicking.

Economies have to adapt and this is the chance to decentralise and rebuild the towns again and the country as a whole, rather than all serving The City.

My former employer (literally just made redundant) has been looking at the jobs being done from home for a while. They started the work before Covid to move some jobs. They've now realised how many more roles could be moved and the savings. They've made all EAs/PAs, admin and HR persons redundant and moved all the jobs to manila. IT is already in India (and doesn't work).
They are a massive, international company. They won't be the last.

@cologne4711

If you live in suburbs there aren’t always spaces free for coffee shops and cafes to spring up

not necessarily, no, but most high streets have plenty of empty units and I think most councils would be happy to have anything in a unit and therefore allow change of use, depending on whether anyone lives above the unit.

Yep agree, in some areas at least, but not everyone is going to live close to a high street. A 40 minute round walk for a coffee when I have a coffee machine at home.... why would I bother? If one opened at the top of my road next to the local shop, would go? I honestly don’t know because why would I spend £3 on a latte if I have the facilities to make one at home? I’m busy working and don’t have time to pop to the gym, shops etc like a lot of people assume with wfh.

I suppose I’m just saying we need to be wary assuming that all the money spent in city centres by commuters will automatically be spent locally instead. Let’s be honest, many of us are enjoying saving a lot more money that we used to spend on the coffees, the breakfast pastries, a bit of lunch time shopping and aren’t in a hurry to spend it elsewhere right now.

Coffee shops are not limited to city centres they are already in smaller suburban areas. My local high street which would take less than two minutes to walk from one end to the other has both a costa and a independent.
There is a Starbucks in another parade less than two miles away and the main town is full of both independents and chains.
Within the last few years most empty units have either become nail bars, hair dressers or coffee shops bar one that has become a small artisan brewery/bar.
The way some of you go on you would think that outside of large cities we still live like it was 1950. You need to look outside your little bubble and see that this is not only an issue for city centres but smaller suburban areas where people also used to leave home to work in the local area but now to are wfh. And I assure you that are not all popping out local for a coffee and break from work. Most are just ticking over, people’s hours have been cut and the student weekend workers laid off completely. Once the weather turns and the winter sets in there will be even less footfall and I can’t see how some will survive.

there are always schools, GP... places where people HAVE to be.
You might not have the time to pop to the shops, but parents will have to find the time to drop and pick up their kids.

We used to see entrepreneurial people making the most of commuters, the same people are already adapting.

That's not my area, but even I can see that some people are making it work, and the kids are not even back at school yet here!

That's great, but completely irrelevant to the discussion, which is about the poster's claim that city centre cafes could be profitable by delivering individual cups of coffee to homes in the suburbs.

@IcedPurple

Plesse specify exactly where I said that. I said that they should do away with city centres cafes and make their products elsewhere and deliver them.