Who is looking at increased wfh long term?

[jorgeous]

Hello all,

The plan at both mine & DHs company was to go in on a rota basis from September. This is still going to happen but far less frequently than we anticipated eg 4 days a month in the office. Plus it's completely voluntary. Companies are making noises about this becoming the norm, reducing HQ space & competitors are acting similar & some have made the switch.
There are lots of benefits to wfh although I do like the social aspect of the office. However because we are not allowed meetings of more than 2 people, gyms, canteens, coffee stations etc are all closed very few are coming back so there is little social aspect.
If this is the norm we really need to rethink our home environment & have a proper office for both of us.
I feel a little sad tbh, anyone else in the same boat?

@Polnm what are your company doing?

I can't imagine having to spend my 1st yr at uni socially distancing! 😵

Me, and I'm delighted. I save three hours a day, a tank of petrol a week, and I'm getting enough sleep for the first time in years.

If my company changed its mind and demanded we return to the office, I'd find another job.

Judging by this thread maybe we do need to move further out asap before we are priced out of there!

[quote jorgeous]@Thneedville I think it's complicated tbh. Mine & DHs firm subsidise the gym, all the restaurants/coffee kiosks, the bar. Id say they have made substantial savings. [/quote]
Yeah mine not so much... I work for a charity too though, so I think people would be more inclined to negotiate a win-win arrangement.

All the tech in the world cannot replicate regular face to face contact between colleagues. We don’t have to be there 9-5 everyday but at least 2/3 days a week for things to move forward, for people to stay motivated, to keep the team bonded and fully aligned to objectives and the brand.

I agree. Although on another WFH thread on mumsnet all the extreme introvert, and people hating posters have posted on there, so you would think that most people preferred to WFH. I would prefer a balance of both as I like being sociable and I like my workmates. I agree that seeing your workmates from time to time is more bonding and improves morale.

How has that worked with people who don't have the space at home to have a decent set-up? and have your company paid for all the extra equipment like office chairs etc?

You are absolutely correct @CeibaTree and @Polnm. I ‘m sorry if I came across as a little smug there. We were told to go and collect anything we needed from the office, so everything except for my desk, which I had to buy, came from my office. Everyone else had everything provided except for a desk because they were built in sets of three and couldn’t be dismantled. So, people are using their kitchen tables, dining room tables or DC’s desks. Some already have their own.

I am very aware that there are loads of WFH staff who don’t have the right environment to work. Either lack of space, lack of the correct equipment, childcare, other family issues etc.

Some of my workmates have to move between the kitchen and their DC’s bedrooms, one of my workmates works in her front room, another in her bedroom.

I feel sorry for young people newly graduated or who have just left school and are employed ona WFH basis. It must be so isolating and difficult to get on the job training.

With huge costs of commuting in time and money, by wfm people can save up to three hours a day on the train and several 000’s a year on a season ticket. Not much incentive to return to the office

Or in many cases – mine included, save money on fuel, not have to sit in polluting traffic jams, and of course save commuting time.

Still WFH (public sector) but slowly being “invited” back one or two days a week. Full time office work has gone forever, there will be hot desking hubs where you book a desk by the hour.

I told work that I’m pregnant at an earlier stage than I would normally so that I can continue solely WFH.

I've been in the office full time since June. We are really losing patience with the terrible service from suppliers and excuses from customers all blaming covid and WFH/furlough for everything. Companies who are using it as an excuse to still not be taking phone calls 6 months down the line deserve to go under frankly. We have already changed a major supplier because of it.

Seriously? I don't live in London for work..it's theatre, concerts, great restaurants, museums, galleries etc. I know a lot of those are closed right now, but it won't be forever.

But those things cost money. Not just for the visitor but to run. There is going to be mass unemployment. Theatres will close permanently, and some already are. Restaurants will close permanently. Etc. Entertainment and the arts are one of the biggest areas that are suffering. They rely on people earning money and giving them money to survive. Even massive venues like the Royal Albert Hall and the Opera House.

MothandRabbit DH is a Professor and will WFH more. He could have written your post almost word for word. He teaches a science subject so will have to go in to do some lab work and teaching but the plan is for much smaller classes, no huge lectures anymore. I think it is a shame for the fun and social aspect for students and I know he will miss it, he used to throw bars of chocolate to whoever could come up with correct answers first in his lectures. Obviously none of that anymore. I worked at two different Universities for 21 years and feel very lucky that I got to enjoy all they offered. Three of my friends have accepted voluntary redundancy from two different RG institutions but they are late fifties to early sixties and at a stage of life where it’s fine for them. Good luck with the new term.

We've been told definitely not back in the office until Jan - since I'll be 8 months pregnant in January I would guess I won't be going back until after maternity leave. I also think that it'll be WFH at least half the week for ever more - I work for a university that already had a 'space crisis', even more so with social distancing. They're turning our huge open plan office into a large teaching space and I can't see it ever going back so they just won't have space for us all to come back full-time. Though realistically there will be fewer of us, too - they're still holding the line that there will be no compulsory redundancies but I don't think anyone really believes it.

It makes me sad, too - I preferred working in the office, hate having no division between work and home and we had recently moved a 10 minute cycle ride from my work so I haven't gained much by not commuting. I know I'm very much the minority at work, though - they recently asked if anyone would like to go into the office on a voluntary basis and I was the only one out of my team of 9 who expressed interest (I'd really like to be out of the house on Weds because DH doesn't work that day and it's a bit shit for him and toddler DS if he has to spend all day distracting and shushing DS, who knows mummy is upstairs and doesn't understand why she won't come and play).

@daisypond i live in London because DH's family and community is there. my MIL has been wfh for over 30 years on less than 20K per annum but still lives in London, thankfully she bought her house at a time when it was 100k. It wasn't easy even in those times, she lived in a 1 bed flat with 3 children for a few years before being able to upgrade but it didn't occur to her to move outside London as she had to be near her synagogue and kosher supermarkets etc ( even now while the jewish community is growing in Herts, its still no where the same as London ).

Even now, she could sell up and retire somewhere cheaper, but she still wouldn't. We are similar in that sense except that we have a 2 bed flat in the same area and are planning on 1 child, not 4 children (not sure she ever planned the number of children tbh, just wanted to keep going on). I also have a local synagogue, and are looking at jewish schools. There are people who live outside London and send their kids to north london jewish schools but the commute looks terrible.

Given the number of BAME people in London, there must be loads of people like this. London would just get less white.

@Faraway20 I agree, our mortgage company are still working reduced phone line operating hours - 9-5 5 days a week instead of 9-8 5 daysa week and a Saturday service. It’s so annoying, I can’t call them during working hours, because, you know I’m working. Covid seems like a piss poor excuse to have a reduced service for so long.

I’m still wfh and have been given the option until at least Jan 2021. It is currently optional, but lack of space for adequate distancing has been mentioned as a potential issue if everyone chooses to return to work. I went in to the office for one day earlier this week and it was particularly ‘busy’. I struggled to find a free desk due to the restrictions that have been implemented so I’m not sure that it will be a regular occurrence for me, although the people I chatted to are also generally still at home so it was possibly a case of poor planning. Apparently this was the first occasion since the changes where space has been an issue and it has been suggested that a rota may be implemented if more of us wish to return.

After my day in the office I have taken the decision to create a work space at home. We are lucky to have the room to do this and we have already been provided with new chairs from work, and printer/scanners where necessary, but I am going to invest in a good desk and further storage so I can keep my work more separate from my home life. I have been working from the tiny playroom, as dh nabbed the dining room and the kitchen was too distracting. With the benefit of hindsight I should have arranged a better wfh solution at the beginning of lockdown but to be honest I didn’t anticipate the situation continuing for such an extended period.

I expect we might end up with some sort of rota. Until about 2 months ago I was desperate to go back, but my job works fine from home, so I think the best thing I can do to fight COVID is to stay WFH as long as possible. Because otherwise it's 40 mins on the tube each working day, which, if everyone else goes back, is prolonged close contact with dozens of extra people every working day that I, and millions of others, can just cut out. I'm not worried about catching it as no one in house is at risk, but it's obviously a risk that I could spread it on the underground. My office is shut until at least the end of next month anyway, but I'm not sure I'll see the inside of it again this year.

I work for a tiny company, we've closed our office and are now permanently WFH. I'm lucky enough to have a proper home office so once the DC go back to school I'm fine with it.

@polnm no it's isn't Durham but thanks for making my point about assumptions around what academics do all day so beautifully for me

As a line manager, I’d also side eye any of my team who were a little too keen to WFH full time permanently.

@Tellmetruth4

What tools do you have at your disposal to motivate and lead your team ? Do you find different approaches work with different team members ?

Do you ever find yourself measuring people by the number of hours they are present in work rather than measures of their output?

@Polnm You do realise that universities are big places and academics aren’t the ones answering the phones in the Admissions dept?

And also that the government drove a coach and horses through universities’ plans - and indeed the government’s own plans for student number caps - right at the very last minute?

Do you find different approaches work with different team members ?

If you have a new joiner who works fully from home, how would you ascertain what approaches are more effective? I know my team from working with them, even if communication channels are very open, I know there are some who would feel hesitant to articulate certain things that help support them over written Comms such as email; they find face to face much easier to communicate effectively. If someone was brand new and I hardly saw them in person, I believe I could be a good manager in as much as I could go by what they're telling me, but there is a lot you learn from spending time in a professional capacity working alongside them.

I just don't like the assumption that you must be a terrible manager if you cannot manage people just as well remotely as you can in person. I agree if it was split between office and home then absolutely you should be able to do both to the same standard, but if that isn't the case and it's fully remote that's different imo.

I've been working in the dining room, which we never use. I'm going to put up a wall and close it off from the living room completely (currently has a weird archway).

I've been thinking about the wider economy and wondering how things could look in 10 years time if most people are wfh.

If offices close there will be more land for housing, which we need. Things like Costa will go under which on the one hand is good that we're moving away from a disposable culture. It's mostly better for our health to not commute and make our own food and drinks. Also less environmental impact.

Less strain on the transport system, people may choose not to replace their current cars.

I can see many positives for the environment and white collar workers. But what about service workers? If Costa, Pret, restaurants go, where do they work? I suppose Amazon and supermarkets as there will be a massive increase in home deliveries - which will then clog up the roads.

"But those things cost money. Not just for the visitor but to run. There is going to be mass unemployment. Theatres will close permanently, and some already are. Restaurants will close permanently. Etc. Entertainment and the arts are one of the biggest areas that are suffering. They rely on people earning money and giving them money to survive. Even massive venues like the Royal Albert Hall and the Opera House."

They do..but those thisngs will come back, I'm sure. The argument was that if you can work from home, what's the point of cities...there's so much more to a city that an office.

I’ve WFH for years in my career. It’s short sighted to think WFH generally will be the norm. If you are working remote and other similarly skilled employees in different parts of the world are competing for the same job and they want a lower salary they’ll get it. You do not want to be in a global recruitment pool. So don’t get too comfortable in those pj’s!!!

Companies will offshore whether or not people WFH. They will do whatever saves them the most money.