Who is looking at increased wfh long term?

[jorgeous]

Hello all,

The plan at both mine & DHs company was to go in on a rota basis from September. This is still going to happen but far less frequently than we anticipated eg 4 days a month in the office. Plus it's completely voluntary. Companies are making noises about this becoming the norm, reducing HQ space & competitors are acting similar & some have made the switch.
There are lots of benefits to wfh although I do like the social aspect of the office. However because we are not allowed meetings of more than 2 people, gyms, canteens, coffee stations etc are all closed very few are coming back so there is little social aspect.
If this is the norm we really need to rethink our home environment & have a proper office for both of us.
I feel a little sad tbh, anyone else in the same boat?

I haven't just asked you, I've asked a few posters who have been raising the offshoring point.

I'm not a fan of online learning either.

I hope we get more WFH. The company I work for has always allowed occasional WFH and aren't in any rush to get back.

This will be life-changing, No 3 hour commute on shit public transport so more sleep / time with family, more time to cook healthy meals and excercise, saving money on after school clubs, transport and food costs, greater flexibility, greater autonomy over my work and schedule etc. Added to this, I don't have to have separate wardrobes for work and home or be in a loud, overly bright office with too many people and I can keep my home the temperature I want.

The only down side of WFH is that my managers has decided that we have to have more social / 'wellbeing' time, and as I work across a number of teams I have to waste my time having multiple bullshit coffee catch ups every week and get interrupted with colleagues calling for a chat!

I think the government is going to have a hard time getting people back to the office because really the benefits are negligible. I really think that 'getting people back to the workplace' is short term thinking. Yes, it will temporarily save some city centre businesses but I think that's going to be temporary - the WFH revolution is going to happen regardless!

I notice that @FluffyKittensinabasket and I share the same suspicions regarding government plants/Propaganda on mumsnet! It's no coincidence that the day the papers announced a government PR blitz around getting people back to the office a clutch of negative WFH threads appeared! Not subtle.

I think if we are looking at a situation where ALL jobs move abroad that it's a different matter, who will pay taxes & fund public services?

Yes, this is a real concern, and this is what I am getting at. We cannot have all jobs in public services, education, the NHS, etc, because they in general aren’t profit making and in fact they cost money. Independent companies need to make profits to fund public service. Companies often are beholden to their shareholders to maximise profit, and if that means putting jobs overseas, that is what it will mean - there will be a few mega-rich and the rest will be scrabbling to find jobs servicing those mega-rich - possibly a lot in personal services, hairdressers, dog groomers, physiotherapists, etc - unless the government forces companies to have a base in the UK/employ so many people in the UK. There probably are some regulations now, but I suspect they are not very stringent - hence Amazon, etc.
Yes, I am worried about my job. It’s already been partially outsourced to the United States and WFH is accelerating that.

I’m being made redundant, so deffo more being at home than working from home🤣

@Chwaraeteg I had the exact same thought

I was doing 3 days wfh each week before CV. We will he going back for a few days a month quite soon, although I'm on maternity from end of September so won't affect me.

I truly hope home working for the vast majority of time is still in place when I return.

@daisypond sorry to hear you are worried about your job.

Tbh I don't really stress too much about all jobs moving off shore or AI, not much I can do about it & if huge swathes of the population are jobless & there are no public services I think there will be more to worry about.

It's like with some of the extreme panic buying. In the event that shops are cleared of all food for weeks on end I don't think I would be thinking it's ok I have 100 tins & we will be fine. I'd be thinking whose going come knocking for my food & how can I protect my family. Perhaps I've watched too many armageddon films!

I haven't read the whole thread but I worry about the new generation of juniors who are straight from college etc and first job is in your bedroom sitting on your bed....little development of social communication skills in the workplace and watching others to learn how to to the job and be a grown up in a working environment. Makes me feel quite sad for them actually and will cause a shift in skills after a few years.

Are your socials not optional @Chwaraeteg ? I can see if they are compulsory that would be a pain.

@taswama, some of them are mandatory unfortunately. They take up at least 2 and a half hours a week! Attending them actually forms part of my objectives. It would be far more helpful if I could use this time to get on with something worthwhile rather than talk about someone's pet's / weekend plans etc.

Our social get together time isn’t compulsory and has evolved over the lockdown period. They are mainly set up by an individual rather than the firm and people join in where they want to. Football seems to be the most popular although I’ve joined the gin tasting!

Can't be worse than those 'Virtual cafe' or 'Virtual get-togethers' that some workplaces organise. The intentions are probably good but the result is thoroughly depressing.

For you maybe, but not for others. Just because you already have a family at home or friends / family nearby, doesn't mean we all have. Maybe stop being so condescending and realise that not everyone is in your luxury position 😒

@Ineedaduvetday

Can't be worse than those 'Virtual cafe' or 'Virtual get-togethers' that some workplaces organise. The intentions are probably good but the result is thoroughly depressing.

For you maybe, but not for others. Just because you already have a family at home or friends / family nearby, doesn't mean we all have. Maybe stop being so condescending and realise that not everyone is in your luxury position 😒

I live alone and my social life revolves around work to a large degree. I haven't participated in any real social event for about 5 months. I still find online 'socialising' depressing.

Others may disagree. I never suggested otherwise, and it's bizarre to imagine that I did, or that I live in some sort of 'luxury position', whatever that is when it's at home.

Why are some people so desperate to take offence on this thread?

That is a bit ridiculous Chwaraeteg . We only have 2 per week and they are optional. Out of about 25 people in the team there's rarely more than 6 people there which is about right for actually having a conversation.

So they are there for people who need them Ineedaduvetday but if its not convenient you don't have to attend, just like I don't have to join in every conversation at the coffee machine.

I’m no plant but I do have fears for the future. I note that more than a few big companies have axed their graduate programmes. No rescheduling. Does this mean a freeze on recruitment at the bottom? Will there be no “bottom” now, with a new model for working? It is worrying for young people, and I don’t think older employees should get too comfortable in their home offices either, as I’m sure that organisations will be able to get a clearer picture of where they can trim personnel or even eliminate whole departments.

a few big companies have axed their graduate programmes. No rescheduling. Does this mean a freeze on recruitment at the bottom?

In years to come, they may take on graduates and have a graduate programme, when the dust clears, but it might not be here in the UK on UK salaries.

Many companies froze recruitment in 2008/9 due to the credit crunch. Those that survived started recruiting in the UK again as they will do this time.

Those that are saying "now you are all WFH aren't you worried that you job will be outsourced to somewhere cheaper?". Companies have had the option to do this previously as well. Having a WFH workforce hasn't made this that much easier than it was before. The large-scale outsourcing of customer services roles that we have already seen in the past has shown that it isn't a perfect solution and is often fraught with issues. I think raising this as an issue now just highlights a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes a UK worker worth paying for (it isn't because they sit in an air-conditioned office in a city centre).

Throwing round comments that people starting/ posting on threads wanting to return to the office are government plants shows a bewildering closed mindedness to the fact that some people, you know, might want to return to work

a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes a UK worker worth paying for (it isn't because they sit in an air-conditioned office in a city centre).

What does make a UK worker worth paying for?

Many companies froze recruitment in 2008/9 due to the credit crunch. Those that survived started recruiting in the UK again as they will do this time.

I think the difference this time - at least for those of us in multinational organisations- is Brexit. And the loss of freedom of movement and services. Which combined with the paradigm shift to some roles being done remotely but effectively. Well, it’s the perfect storm

@Aridane what's happening with your job?

Those that are saying "now you are all WFH aren't you worried that you job will be outsourced to somewhere cheaper?". Companies have had the option to do this previously as well.

Companies also had the option to have staff WFH previously, but didn't think it was feasible. Now however - at least according to many here - employers have seen that WFH is a win win, with employees getting a less stressful life while being equally productive and employers potentially saving tons of cash on city centre premises. The potential downside of this is that employers may also see that the same technology which allows someone in Britain to work efficiently while rarely if ever coming into the office, may also allow someone from Poland or Bulgaria to do the same thing, only for considerably less money.

a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes a UK worker worth paying for (it isn't because they sit in an air-conditioned office in a city centre).

What is it then? If geographic location is no longer important, why is a British employee inherently better than a competent, English speaking Polish or Bulgarian employee?

One reason offshoring slowed pre Covid was not just because it had an impact on customer service

"In 2010, a company could employ 8.3 Chinese manufacturing workers for the same price as one American worker. By 2018, the figure had plummeted to just 2.9"

there is no reason why that model won't play out in Eastern Europe. Plus Eastern Europe has seen wage growth faster than Western Europe its slightly narrow minded to assume that thousands of Bulgarians or Polish workers will be happy with low wages for a long period. The women I go to for beauty treatments is Ukrainian & is moving back this yr (I'm gutted, she's fantastic) because the beauty industry there is booming & she will earn similar to here but house prices & rent are not equivalent to London.

Both me and my partner are civil service but different departments. No sign of returning to the office until at least the new year! It's a novelty at first but I'd like to return for at least a couple of days a week. We are still working off the kitchen table/dressing table!