Who is looking at increased wfh long term?

[jorgeous]

Hello all,

The plan at both mine & DHs company was to go in on a rota basis from September. This is still going to happen but far less frequently than we anticipated eg 4 days a month in the office. Plus it's completely voluntary. Companies are making noises about this becoming the norm, reducing HQ space & competitors are acting similar & some have made the switch.
There are lots of benefits to wfh although I do like the social aspect of the office. However because we are not allowed meetings of more than 2 people, gyms, canteens, coffee stations etc are all closed very few are coming back so there is little social aspect.
If this is the norm we really need to rethink our home environment & have a proper office for both of us.
I feel a little sad tbh, anyone else in the same boat?

We are allowed back on a voluntary basis from end of September but only on a rota basis and certain communal areas are shut. So it won’t be very social - it’s basically just opening so that people who have limited space at home can have a better working environment.

I don’t intend to go back until January and then I’m hoping I can just go in once a week. I love WFH - get so much more done! Now we know this is the norm we’re replacing our spare bed with a sod bed and desk

I work for a very large company and we have just heard that we will be wfh until March next year. It was so hectic at the start of lockdown to get us all set up at home, that I think the bosses are reluctant to have us return, just for it all to kick off again over winter with a second wave, potentially affecting everyone in the office if there’s an outbreak amongst us all. I’ve mixed feelings - think it’s good over winter in that I won’t have the commute in dark mornings, and contending with weather issues, but will miss the normality of being with colleagues, and the hustle and bustle of Xmas in the office. But tbh our building holds a thousand people, and with social distancing etc, we would only be able to bring back 50% of the work force anyway.

why have housing in central locations at all

In London that is where most people would like housing, those on the list are fed up of getting shunted outside of London.

I’m in London and my office (part of a large multinational) is closing permanently. There will be no need for many people to live in London or even near it. It raises the question of what is the point of cities.

@TheKeatingFive

I don’t think this will be the trend longer term, no.

There will certainly be more wfh, but when we get a better handle on this and the fear subsides a bit, the drive to get people back to the office a few days a week will start.

I don’t see many companies giving up their office space entirely.

You might be surprised . My H has been working for months now on closing down office space . You won't know it now but when renewals on space come up they won't happen .This may be 1 year - 2 years depending on the lease. Many companies have found it cheaper to have their workers at home as opposed to complying with all the regulations. However also expect staff reductions with it .

would you move @daisypond?

I'm not in a job I can do from home but I wonder whether a lot of these companies keeping wfh going are actually being sensible in terms of the self isolation rules meaning workers will regularly have to stay home when winter coughs and colds hit. If they are set up to wfh already then there is less work time lost.
I won't get paid at all if I have to self isolate so I've given this a lot of thought and keep myself away from others as much as I can to avoid not being able to work and therefore pay my rent !

Daisy did you use that office for client meetings? What’s the plan if you did

All the tech in the world cannot replicate regular face to face contact between colleagues. We don’t have to be there 9-5 everyday but at least 2/3 days a week for things to move forward, for people to stay motivated, to keep the team bonded and fully aligned to objectives and the brand.

I disagree. I've worked with people based in other countries and never met them. There was absolutely no reason to spend the money to meet face to face. Our working relationship was strong and productive. I've also worked with colleagues abroad over a long period of time and not seen them year to year, still we worked well together. No need to physically see any team member 2 - 3 days a week to have a good working relationship.

@VivaMiltonKeynes interesting. DHs company have mentioned smaller hubs dotted about with meeting rooms.

@schoolcook I completely agree if a company is productive wfh why risk illness & less productivity?

+Also I think lockdown and wfh has made people (me definitely!) realise how much frivolous spending they were doing*

@CeibaTree Absolutely, me too! When I look back now (I keep a note of my discretionary spending on my phone) I realise how much I spent buying a coffee or popping to the shop at lunchtime or on my way back from a meeting. That money doesn’t get wasted now.

I don’t think offices will cease to exist, but there will be much more of a flexible hybrid. I know our new starters have struggled and that’s one big reason there will be an office presence, as is that some people don’t live in set ups that are suitable for home working. But for those who can and want to, WFH is almost certainly here to stay, as is a large enough office space for everyone to be in all at once.

I suspect the current legislation that allows offices to be converted into housing will get a lot more use, which can’t be a bad thing.

@daisypond

why have housing in central locations at all

In London that is where most people would like housing, those on the list are fed up of getting shunted outside of London.

I’m in London and my office (part of a large multinational) is closing permanently. There will be no need for many people to live in London or even near it. It raises the question of what is the point of cities.

I wonder if companies that offer London weighting will be rethinking this. And how will people react to that being taken away. It'll be interesting to see how things unfold, although I am aware I can say that from the position of both DH and I having a fairly recession proof jobs, I'm sure lots of people are very worried about theirs at the moment and wish things could go back to how things were in early March!

In our company we are basically all wfh unless someone wants to go into the office. They just book a desk but it is a totally voluntary. I now have a full setup at home and plan to be mainly wfh in the future. I have been back to the office twice and will go back in again next week. However it is just a desk and monitor, there is hardly anyone there. I think I'll go in occasionally but no way will I go back to working 4 days a week in the office, even 2/3 days a week will be too many.

Im working from home for the foreseeable future. I work from home 2 days a week normally and have flexible hours so this doesn't feel too much different for me.

I brought a desk and office chair but my tech and stationery is all paid for by my company.

For me this is a welcome change (but my electricity bill has nearly doubled..)

In the longer term we expect to have flexibility for everyone to work majority from the office or majority from home, depending on what they prefer.

It’s easy for the senior people to say “let’s all work from home! And close the office!” , with our spare rooms and £3,500 pa season tickets. But plenty of people don’t have the space, are working with constant interruptions from other family members (not just children), and some people have the office as their ONLY social contact (I’m not exaggerating).

Plus at the moment we are an established team, I know everyone in the office, at some point new people will join and it will be hard to train them and create those connections if we are never in the office.

Ideally we’d have a smaller office though.

Short term we are cautiously reopening for those who want it on limited days. Our biggest problem is the fact we all have to use public transport (central London).

I won’t be going soon though, been once and I don’t like the fact I have no control over who is going to pile onto my train.

I feel bad for my little Pret shop and the smiley Pret staff (although I doubt they made much profit on my daily 50p coffee!).

@CeibaTree

I might be wrong but always thought specific London weighting was more for the public sector eg teachers, police & tbh I don't know if it ofsets the actual cost.

@BrightYellowDaffodil

+Also I think lockdown and wfh has made people (me definitely!) realise how much frivolous spending they were doing*

@CeibaTree Absolutely, me too! When I look back now (I keep a note of my discretionary spending on my phone) I realise how much I spent buying a coffee or popping to the shop at lunchtime or on my way back from a meeting. That money doesn’t get wasted now.

I don’t think offices will cease to exist, but there will be much more of a flexible hybrid. I know our new starters have struggled and that’s one big reason there will be an office presence, as is that some people don’t live in set ups that are suitable for home working. But for those who can and want to, WFH is almost certainly here to stay, as is a large enough office space for everyone to be in all at once.

I suspect the current legislation that allows offices to be converted into housing will get a lot more use, which can’t be a bad thing.

But for those who can and want to, WFH is almost certainly here to stay, as is a large enough office space for everyone to be in all at once

Again this is an old fashioned idea. Companies do not have the money to keep an office open in case everyone decides to go in on one day . Hot desking will become more the norm if you don't already have it in your office. Sadly the mantra is " if they were able to carry on during wfh then why just not continue it ".

@Ginfordinner

All of my team have had their contracts changed to WFH. I have a full office set up in a spare bedroom with a desk, office chair, PC with 2 widescreen monitors, keyboard, mouse, headset and softphone software. It is much nicer than the office I was on with its arctic aircon.

Do they all have the same? Funded by the company?

Or are they balanced on the edge of the bed in a bedroom or alternating at the kitchen ranks with a spouse

Companies need to do risk assessments and provide appropriate workstations and for lots of people in small flats they can’t have an appropriate dedicated work station

I gave heard lots of affluent middle aged managers sitting in their studies saying how great it is whilst their staff in their 29s are in house shares confined in a small bedroom for 18 hours a day

When the loss of London premium/weighting kicks in it will get worse

Companies also need appropriate insurance which often prevents having children under 11 in the house whilst working and required risk assessed work stations

@schoolcook

I'm not in a job I can do from home but I wonder whether a lot of these companies keeping wfh going are actually being sensible in terms of the self isolation rules meaning workers will regularly have to stay home when winter coughs and colds hit. If they are set up to wfh already then there is less work time lost. I won't get paid at all if I have to self isolate so I've given this a lot of thought and keep myself away from others as much as I can to avoid not being able to work and therefore pay my rent !

This worries me.

Several of us will be in a tiny office with less than 1m between each other.
If one gets a cold, we all will.

It's so short sighted when I can wfh. It's slso placing us and others at unnecessary risk, just for presenteeism.

We've been told we are working fron home until at least feb 2021and its only if you are struggling working from home that you will be able to work from the office from September . We have all proved that actually we are quite productive doing it this way although if we'd asked to work from home before thet would have laughed and told us to just find another job!!!

Both DP an I are still WFH, with no talks to go back to the office as yet.

I work in finance for a large bank, my productivity is arguably better since WFH. No commutes, less stress, and more sleep each night. I worked till gone 7pm last night as to tidy things up as so I can enjoy a long bank holiday weekend. Our boss has commented many times on our productivity. Got a bonus a couple of month ago, and told this week a payrise with immediate effect.

I can't see they will rush us back, as no need. I'm glad, I love wfh. MUCH better work/life balance.

[quote jorgeous]@CeibaTree

I might be wrong but always thought specific London weighting was more for the public sector eg teachers, police & tbh I don't know if it ofsets the actual cost. [/quote]
Their is a London uplift in salaries whether in pret or the city

We pay about £40,000 extra for the same role in the city as in Leeds as an example

When those in London see what a regional salary without an uplift is they may be rather shocked

I gave heard lots of affluent middle aged managers sitting in their studies saying how great it is whilst their staff in their 29s are in house shares confined in a small bedroom for 18 hours a day

Yeah there is a big divide, people who will keep their jobs & be better off financially & better work/life balance & those who lose their jobs/can't wfh or have to wfh in unsuitable positions.

I'm the decision maker for this in our small company.

We have plenty of room for everyone in our offices to be in at once, and none of us see the point of a rota pulling staff in and out, when it's only valuable if we're actually in together.

We're meeting fortnightly instead, to catch up on planning together.

Our office is in a rather dingy suburb anyway, so we all prefer our local areas.

@Polnm I didn't know there was that much discrepancy. Ly 3 friends/neighbours moved back north & their salaries didn't drop by more than 15% (accountant, solicitor & consultant)

[quote jorgeous]@CeibaTree

I might be wrong but always thought specific London weighting was more for the public sector eg teachers, police & tbh I don't know if it ofsets the actual cost. [/quote]
I used to work at a university and got London weighting. Everyone got it from academics to admin staff. I don't actually know where the money comes from, I always assumed the employer had to pay it, but I could be wrong. It was around an extra £5K per year on top of regular salary if I remember correctly.