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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who is looking at increased wfh long term?

420 replies

jorgeous · 28/08/2020 06:59

Hello all,

The plan at both mine & DHs company was to go in on a rota basis from September. This is still going to happen but far less frequently than we anticipated eg 4 days a month in the office. Plus it's completely voluntary. Companies are making noises about this becoming the norm, reducing HQ space & competitors are acting similar & some have made the switch.
There are lots of benefits to wfh although I do like the social aspect of the office. However because we are not allowed meetings of more than 2 people, gyms, canteens, coffee stations etc are all closed very few are coming back so there is little social aspect.
If this is the norm we really need to rethink our home environment & have a proper office for both of us.
I feel a little sad tbh, anyone else in the same boat?

OP posts:
cologne4711 · 29/08/2020 07:53

I would wonder why they seem to not to want to see their colleagues, team mates face to face? I’d wonder why they are working for my company. Do they actually care about it? If they don’t want to ever see any of us in real life, why do they work for us? Is it only about the money? Are they committed to our company? Are they aligned to our values etc? I’m allowed to question their motivations

So you've not read, or listened to, any of the articles, social media posts or journalist pieces about this in the last few weeks? I would "side eye" anyone who is so out of touch that they can't work it out for themselves. But here is a nice long list for you - obviously some of these may not apply if you are not in London or another big commuter area.

Time and money spent on commute

Unreliable trains/buses leading to stressful and lengthy commutes (and arriving late for work and arriving late home)

Unreliable childcare with no wraparound even when schools go back

Being less tired because of less commuting and potentially more sleep

Having time to spend with family

Having time to spend on hobbies as they restart

Avoiding office politics and micro-managing colleagues

Being judged on work done, rather than length of time bottom is on office seat

Unpleasant working environment (I know some people have that at home, but they're the ones going back to offices or looking for co-working hubs)

cologne4711 · 29/08/2020 07:54

I am surprised that people are talking about 3 days a week in the office. That doesn't work with train season tickets because it costs the same as a full-time season ticket. You either need 1/2 days in the office, or 5. Or 2/3 over 2 weeks so you can buy a weekly - eg Thurs/Fri one week and then Mon to Wed the following week and then have a week off before going back the following Thurs again.

Parker231 · 29/08/2020 07:58

@Tellmetruth4 - perhaps their work v life balance, time saved in commuting, travel costs are more important to them than being seen in the office?

scissy · 29/08/2020 08:06

@cologne4711

I am surprised that people are talking about 3 days a week in the office. That doesn't work with train season tickets because it costs the same as a full-time season ticket. You either need 1/2 days in the office, or 5. Or 2/3 over 2 weeks so you can buy a weekly - eg Thurs/Fri one week and then Mon to Wed the following week and then have a week off before going back the following Thurs again.
Not everyone works in London and commutes with a season ticket @cologne4711 Hmm - I'm moving to 2-3 days in the office, the rest wfh. It makes no odds to me cost wise as I walk to work anyway. My colleagues are appreciating not having to drive in everyday.
Ginfordinner · 29/08/2020 08:24

My workplace is on a trading estate with very poor public transport links from my house, and nowhere near a railway station.

I drive to work, and so do at least 90% of the people I work with.

SimonJT · 29/08/2020 08:38

I recently received my new contact, I will be required to be on site two days in a four week period. The site however isn’t named, so I wouldn’t be surprised if our offices move. At the moment we are in a very expensive pickled vegetable shaped building, so moving elsewhere could save a lot of money.

I walk to work so no savings in my ‘commute’ but not doing that walk saves me just over an hour a day, so I will actually have more free time as I can be productive in that hour rather than making the journey to work. It will cut my sons time in after school club (when after school club eventually starts again).

The downside is lower paid members of staff will be at risk of losing their jobs, cleaners, receptionists etc.

parched · 29/08/2020 08:53

@Hollyhead yes I'm in UK but T&T is manual and only works where the infected person or the establishments they visited knows the names of their contacts or customers. If I sit next to someone on a train for an hour who then tests positive, neither they nor the train operator have any way of identifying me to be contacted.

EsmeShelby · 29/08/2020 08:58

WFH is the default for the moment people are discouraged from going in. I think that at least half of the time we'll be WFH in the future. I don't like it much despite the savings in time and money.

Parker231 · 29/08/2020 09:23

The government is about to start a big campaign to get employees back into their workplace but many don’t have large enough offices to continue with social distancing if everyone is back. I know many firms aren’t planning a return until next year, some moving to wfm as the norm.

juggyty · 29/08/2020 09:31

It's seems like a complete waste of money to launch an advertising campaign to get people back. My company would rather productivity is maintained by people at home as opposed to coming in & potentially getting ill/spreading it. Are all public sector depts back?

hammeringinmyhead · 29/08/2020 09:33

@juggyty

It's seems like a complete waste of money to launch an advertising campaign to get people back. My company would rather productivity is maintained by people at home as opposed to coming in & potentially getting ill/spreading it. Are all public sector depts back?
Agreed! Surely a "Pretty please go back" campaign will be met with a shrug?

I know someone in NHS admin (office based) and they are WFH for the foreseeable.

Parker231 · 29/08/2020 09:39

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-53942542

FinallyHere · 29/08/2020 09:44

Frankly, the U.K. government has done nothing to earn my trust and respect in the way they have handled this pandemic.

By contrast, I work for a large corporate who have provided an object lesson in how to respond. They started preparations Jan/Feb to increase the capacity for the numbers of people WFT , planned a one day WFH for everyone who can do early in March to test the new capacity. We have been WFH ever since.

We have the same responsibility to flag up if the ergonomic set up of our workstation when WFH does not meet the standards with chairs etc supplied as required

Lots of communication, formal and informal to keep us in touch with what's is happening and what is being planned for future. Lots of requests for feedback. Some high level non-Covid related initiatives underway, too.

This demonstrates to me that with the right will, it is possible to treat people like adults and come together to find a way though.

Such a contrast with the uk governments approach.

MothAndRabbit · 29/08/2020 09:53

Agree completely @FinallyHere. My institution have actually been excellent (yes, I am mildly surprised). Quick off the mark, flexible, understanding, encouraging. All decisions are carefully weighed up and considered, with students and staff wellbeing at the forefront. I've been impressed, and I trust them.

The govt, on the other hand. Wouldn't trust them to run a tap, let alone a country in a pandemic. I wasn't exactly a fan before, but this crisis has brought out the very worst in them in so many ways and shown them to be both utterly incompetent and utterly venal. Ordinary people are cogs in their money-making machine, nothing more.

nosswith · 29/08/2020 09:55

London based, definitely, just a case of how much and what ground rules there may be for when to go into the office.

juggyty · 29/08/2020 09:57

By contrast, I work for a large corporate who have provided an object lesson in how to respond. They started preparations Jan/Feb to increase the capacity for the numbers of people WFT

Was this as a result of Covid?

Parker231 · 29/08/2020 10:04

From The Guardian - A major government push to herd office workers back to city centres was trailed today in Johnsonian jazz mag the Daily Telegraph, beneath the thoughtful headline “Go back to work or risk losing your job”. Or to put it another way … Leave home. Forget the NHS. Save Pret.

FinallyHere · 29/08/2020 10:21

@juggyty yes, they saw the signs of Covid coming from Jan 2020.

Lots of network people pulled off other projects to focus on increasing the capacity of VPN etc that support remote working.

juggyty · 29/08/2020 10:22

to be fair though I wouldn't say that's the norm for most companies WHO didn't even confirm human to human transmission until 20/01

FinallyHere · 29/08/2020 10:23

Wouldn't trust them to run a tap

@MothAndRabbit

Not seen that expression before, very apt 😆

Heffalooomia · 29/08/2020 11:01

This crisis has brought out the very worst in them in so many ways and shown them to be both utterly incompetent and utterly venal. Ordinary people are cogs in their money-making machine, nothing more
Agree 100-percent
Furthermore I believe this view is widely held

FinallyHere · 29/08/2020 11:23

@juggyty as you say, to be fair though

you don't need to have an actual pandemic under way in order to have plans in place, which are rolled out if/when you decide that this is it

If commercial organisations can have a reasonably clear idea of how they would response to , keep those ideas current, and have whose responsibility it is to keep an eye out, then it is entirely possible to hit the ground running when are confirmed.

Even when we were all sent home to 'test' the arrangements for everyone to WFH, no one I know had any idea that this was anything other than the sort of thing they do for Diaster Recovery plans, every few years.

Everything my organisation has done, the clarity and frequency of their actions and communications, demonstrates that they are prepared and acting smoothly and decisively. Its very reassuring.

Nothing I have seen from the UK government suggests that there have any level of preparedness. Much of what the government have announced has been almost immediately rescinded, which is not the way to build trust and confidence.

juggyty · 29/08/2020 11:28

I'm not saying it's a bad thing just that I doubt many companies were prepping for Covid pre "covid pandemic" if that makes sense.

FinallyHere · 29/08/2020 12:00

That's my whole point @juggyty Apologies if I'm not making myself clear.

No one was prepping for "Covid" ahead of Covid arriving. Planning for disasters can never start with the actual event, by their very nature. The thing to do is to have a grasp of what might need to be done, at different scales

Evacuating the site while "work continues uninterrupted" is a pretty straightforward scenarios to be prepared for. Lots of systems which had been tested over the years, such as text messages to tell everyone to "keep away" from offices and sites were not needed this time round.

No one thinks it was a waste having those systems in place. In recovery from other kinds of disaster, they could have been essential.

We probably all have spent a bit of time thinking about what they would do 'if', especially when they have children and other dependents. Teenagers tend to keep it as 'phone parents' and consider missing the last train a disaster. As we get older and have more responsibilities, it makes sense to have a few more options at our fingertips.

Once you are employing people, providing a work place for them, you would like to think that someone had thought through what might go wrong and who would do what. Simple example, fire drills to check we can evacuate a burning building. It's not rocket science. You do a fire drill every so often to make sure it works. If it's a mess, you do it again more frequently.

What you don't do is wait til you smell fire to start thinking about it. Similarly, you don't need different drills for fire, bomb scares and chemical spills. If people are prepared, you just ring the bell and the building is evacuated.

You need a combination of robust and effective plans plus an agility to respond to actual events. That's when you see real leadership.

Saying 'well no one told us it was going to be a global pandemic' doesn't really cut it.

Choosing people to be part of your leadership team based in their unquestioning loyalty rather than those who will challenge your ideas runs the risk that no one challenges any ideas floated in Cabinet. That challenge is required so that only the really sensible, practical ideas make it out to the public.

Without that challenge, you end up with "Groupthink", announcing initiatives which have to be countermanded almost as soon as the public hear about them.

Anyone saying bless them, they are doing their best, none expected a pandemic, are setting the bar really very low indeed for politicians who after all, offer their services as our leaders and ask us to support them.

FluffyKittensinabasket · 29/08/2020 12:18

Despite the clear government plants on Mumsnet, I’ll still be working from home thanks.

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