To think attending this wedding is a bad idea

[frillyfarmer]

Friends' wedding was postponed in May due to Covid, rearranged for end October.

I'd just sort of assumed with the general shitstorm of Covid, and with the laws surrounding gatherings of more than 30 people, this would be postponed again, but we received an email today confirming they are still going ahead.

The church service will be just them and immediate family, as per the rules. The reception is to be held privately (they're landowners) for 160 people. All of our friends are going - they're really looking forwards to a good kick back and a party after months of us not seeing one another.

I feel like we will be missing out on all the fun but I just don't think I can feel comfortable breaking the rules like that, especially considering the fines for attending illegal gatherings.

My husband has said he is happy to either go or not go depending on what I think. We are low risk, healthy in our 30s leading very isolated lifestyle by design as we're farmers. I'm a SAHM to two preschool aged children. My biggest concern is ending up on the front of the daily mail like the house parties in Manchester...

Would you go?

"Well young people are expected to go to school in 'bubbles' of 260, and teachers to teach multiple 'bubbles' of 260 and apparently this is all perfectly fine so I'm surprised so many people are saying no don't go it's too dangerous."

It is necessary to go to school.

It is not necessary to go to a wedding.

I'm not sure why this is hard to understand.

Apart from anything else, if you're farmers, aren't you a bit screwed if you both catch Covid?

All the farmers I've ever known have not been able to take time off from their farms, given the nature of the work... If you both get sick at the same time, is there someone available to look after the farm?

I thought this thread was a windup - but I see the OP has other bona fide threads.

So the wedding couple has decided to deliberately ignore the rules? I’d be reporting. Is there no incentive to comply? No fine for intentional and premeditated non-compliance?

They must be very disappointed, but seriously they think they are entitled to a special exception?

The wedding couple are being incredibly selfish. This is why the bloody virus keeps on being spread.

I wouldn't go
I would report them

Wow. We're also getting married (not in the UK), also an outdoor wedding, however we're respecting the guidelines (which are more than 30). I understand how 30 is not so many people and being on their own property they decided to go a bit over the number to include all their loved ones, but I don't understand 160.

So even from this position (me getting married), I can't understand it and agree with it, so no, I would not go. It's wrong on many levels and it's too big an event to be properly distanced and controlled.

I would normally say make a few exceptions for a good friend's wedding, but 160 people is absolutely ridiculous. Many weddings have been cancelled or pared down to just family and a handful of friends. It's doable.

I wouldn’t go. My husband is in the wedding industry and has had no work for 6 months, but he wouldn’t attend that either. They are being incredibly selfish.

avoid

suggest a meal/drink with the couple either before the day, or a few weeks after when you know they're covid clear?
But maybe not as they seem fairly foolhardy in relation to risk.

I disagree with many posters here. The wedding gathering is legal. The rules are within The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) Regulations 2020. This is legislation introduced on 4 July 2020.

A gathering of more than 30 people is allowed so long as it is not within a dwelling including its garden and other areas, such as a yard and so long as it is not on public outdoor space. If it is being held on the landowners' private land that is not the dwelling areas then it is OK. This is probably why the police, in a previous poster's post, allowed another gathering to proceed. They probably looked at the site and decided it was compliant with the law. This is also why house and garden parties are broken up - they are clearly being held on land that is a dwelling. The presence of a marquee is a red herring in this particular case.

There could be ambiguity in some situations. What if the land where the gathering takes place is an orchard adjacent to the garden? Is that part of the dwelling? What if portaloos are sited on the tennis court? That would be a site that is part of the dwelling, but then you could get into arguments on whether the facilitation of loos constitutes a gathering. It probably does not. There would be no expectation that 160 people would access the tennis court at one time.

This particular wedding gathering seems legal. Publications on You.Gov that give guidance do not always reflect the law. There is a difference between the two and though good guidance is worth following, it does not, certainly at this stage replace law that is just 55 days old.

If I were the landowner, I would be contacting both the police and the local council in advance to inform them of the wedding and the areas occupied. That is not to seek permission, which is unnecessary, but just to avoid any misunderstanding or embarrassment on the day.

This does not detract from valid questions raised by many posters. @frillyfarmer would you want to go if you are farmers, particularly livestock farmers, where you are on duty 24 hours a day? Should either or both of you contract coronavirus the short and medium term effects may mean you have to give up farming. Probably best to 'feel a bit rough' and self isolate and not attend.

@Manolin

I disagree with many posters here. The wedding gathering is legal. The rules are within The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) Regulations 2020. This is legislation introduced on 4 July 2020.

A gathering of more than 30 people is allowed so long as it is not within a dwelling including its garden and other areas, such as a yard and so long as it is not on public outdoor space. If it is being held on the landowners' private land that is not the dwelling areas then it is OK. This is probably why the police, in a previous poster's post, allowed another gathering to proceed. They probably looked at the site and decided it was compliant with the law. This is also why house and garden parties are broken up - they are clearly being held on land that is a dwelling. The presence of a marquee is a red herring in this particular case.

There could be ambiguity in some situations. What if the land where the gathering takes place is an orchard adjacent to the garden? Is that part of the dwelling? What if portaloos are sited on the tennis court? That would be a site that is part of the dwelling, but then you could get into arguments on whether the facilitation of loos constitutes a gathering. It probably does not. There would be no expectation that 160 people would access the tennis court at one time.

This particular wedding gathering seems legal. Publications on You.Gov that give guidance do not always reflect the law. There is a difference between the two and though good guidance is worth following, it does not, certainly at this stage replace law that is just 55 days old.

If I were the landowner, I would be contacting both the police and the local council in advance to inform them of the wedding and the areas occupied. That is not to seek permission, which is unnecessary, but just to avoid any misunderstanding or embarrassment on the day.

This does not detract from valid questions raised by many posters. @frillyfarmer would you want to go if you are farmers, particularly livestock farmers, where you are on duty 24 hours a day? Should either or both of you contract coronavirus the short and medium term effects may mean you have to give up farming. Probably best to 'feel a bit rough' and self isolate and not attend.

Yes it is technically legal, only because the police cannot break up a family party on private land without a warrant. Doesnt make it ok or within the "guidelines".

And I should add that my kids are going back to school next week and I am back at work in my pub, so not by nature a panicker.

That is exactly what I said @PyongyangKipperbang

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

For me it would depend on what sort of risk I specifically would be - to myself and others.

I have no vulnerable friends/relatives. I work from home. I don't use public transport. I get my shopping delivered. I am not vulnerable myself.

If I got it, id probably be fine. Same as flu or pneumonia. If I got it I wouldn't spread it far.

If you only give it to one person as a result of doing something so foolish, that's one too many.

And what about all the people they may infect? And so on?

as it's illegal there's different facets to the question - the moral/ethical question of whether to break the law is separate from the scientific question of whether it's safe.

given that at least some of it is outdoors, it would be safe enough to go along for a bit, maybe not the whole thing. if in any enclosed space (including in the marquee) wear a mask and don't eat or drink, but if in one air then fine to eat and drink and not wear a mask.

but from a moral/ethical view of whether to break the law. nope. the law may be irrational (this event won't be intrinsically more risky than things that are legally open like schools and restaurants) but if everyone ignored all the regulations we would be having a far higher death rate right now. each individual decision to stay home only has a tiny impact and each individual decision to ignore rules and do something anyway only increases risk by a vanishingly tiny amount but there are 66 million people in the country and 7 billion people on the planet and these micro-risk decisions all add up one way or the other. saying no to the invitation only impacts risk by a tiny tiny amount but is a pixel in building the big picture of whether or not we as a culture can put the greater good ahead of our own desires. so on balance, I wouldn't go.

No, that’s far too many people.
And when the alcohol kicks in the social distancing will go out of the window.

Just to put the risk in perspective:

New Zealand, who declared themselves COVID-free a couple of months ago had four new cases in one family just over two weeks ago. From those four cases the numbers have spread and now they have 351 cases. 200 of those have materialised in less than a week.

It seems to be absent from the news I suspect because New Zealand have been upheld as the country who got things right, and it now seems apparent that they weren’t able to contain the virus after all.. But the stats are out there.

If that’s what can happen with four people imagine the fallout from 160.

I absolutely would not go, and despair at the ignorance and selfishness of people who’d go ahead with this event. This is just the sort of start of a story about a local outbreak.
For once I hope this thread gets picked up by the DM, maybe it’d show the couple how irresponsible they’re being.

Do you need to decide right now? The end of October is some time off. I would leave the decision until nearer the time if you can.

No I would be to and I hope it goes shot shaped to be honest. I've had to work throughout this pandemic. We haven't been allowed time off, have had to travel much further to cover areas I don't usually work in, all at my own expense. Have to remain 2 metres apart etc etc cannot share lifts so I have to cover all my own travel costs and car costs. Couldn't go on holiday. My child has lost their job. Then to hear this. Fuck me why do I bother.

Also the only reason the landed gentry are allowed to get away with it because they are simply that. Imagine if this happened at a school. Every one would be up in arms criticising teachers and calling them irresponsible. The wealthy can still pass it on to people.

The guidance may have changed by then. Perhaps not to 160 but we have been told that they are investigating lifting the 30 cap at least for churches. All wedding receptions have to be in established venues and on socially distanced tables so a marquee in a field is breaking the law

How incredibly stupid and selfish.

I absolutely wouldn't go, and it would probably change how I think about the people organising and going.

I would also go, without hesitation, so I will sit on the "You're stupid" bench with the others!

Nope.

The guidance might have changed by then I suppose. It will go one way or the other. We could see further restrictions imposed, or possibly this might be allowed, although I doubt it. No way would I go.

This type of post is journalistic fodder.