...to think this is vile behaviour from a vet?

[ReluctantRenegade]

Hi all,

I'm very upset as I type this and desperately need some advice. The situation is my cat's 17 and has a few chronic health conditions including kidney (stage 2 at last blood analysis a few months ago) and heart disease. He had two seizures about a week ago which I think were caused by the hot weather as he was struggling to keep cool despite our best efforts. He has had one seizure before several months ago so three in total.

I took him to the vets today and they recommended having him put down because of the combination of these various illnesses which I can understand as on paper it looks bad but they don't live with him so aren't getting the full picture. I know they're professionals but they don't see him eating, sleeping and enjoying getting affection from his owners who've loved and cared for him for 17 years so they're just looking at him as a list of symptoms rather than as a living entity.

Anyway, I said to the vet putting him to sleep has been something that's on my mind but he has improved in some ways now he is taking diuretics for the heart disease. Obviously the seizures were nasty to witness and probably awful for him and he was quite disoriented following this but this is improving now and he hasn't had further seizures since the weather has cooled down.

What disgusted me however and made me feel utterly powerless and on my own with regards to his care is she said they could put him down then and there at the appointment even though he was just booked in for a check-up so naturally I refused as it seemed too abrupt and I don't think he is suffering to the extent he needs to be put down immediately. Of course there is an element of suffering with any chronic health condition but people suffer with multiple ailments and aren't sent to their deaths, their conditions are managed.

What really has upset me though other than their haste to end his life is the vet would only give me enough diuretic medication for him for the next week as she said she thinks he needs to be put down within the next week. Is this even allowed? She thinks he is suffering but is going to make him suffer more by not authorising medication to keep him comfortable for his time left in the world, whether that be weeks or months? AIBU or is this highly unethical of her to refuse to re-prescribe medication for him?

Lastly, this vets is subsidised so I think there's an element of it being cheaper for them to have him die than treating him there and have heard other owners disagree with this practice's 'recommendation' to put their pets to sleep. I pay what I can afford but it's cheaper than a standard vets so I think this is probably relevant to their eagerness to put animals down.

I thought I'd also add..

We lost a dog a couple of weeks back, at the age of 13, an epic age for a giant breed dog.

She was still enjoying a short trundle outside, fusses, food, sleeping on the sofa, doing as she pleased.

I had to ask myself though, how much LESS quality of life was I prepared to accept for her?

If things are only going to get worse, and in my dogs case, that was the only way things were going, how much less than she had right there and then, would I think acceptable for her.

And looking at it that way, rather than 'what do we have' asking 'what else can we lose and this still be ok'... made it much clearer to see when the time was right.

It doesn't make it easier, it is never easy, and you truly have my sympathies, but please do not wait for your cat to 'ask' you to let him go, don't wait for him to struggle, and lose the quality of life he currently has any further.

I'm so sorry OP . I don't think we can see it in our beloved pets. l know l should have put my darling dog to sleep a good six months before l did but l couldn't see it myself but on reflection l know now l should

ReluctantRenegade you have received 5 pages of responses. What are your thoughts?

I'm really sorry OP but I do disagree with you. I think it must be quite frustrating for a vet to know that it is time to put an animal to sleep, but the owner isn't ready to let go and its suffering is prolonged.
It must be heartbreaking for you, but if the vet thinks it's time, then it is for the best.

Listen to the vet OP, I have far more respect for a vet who will stop suffering than prolong it.

This is so awful OP but I agree with the consensus, it’s time to do the last kind thing for your beloved cat. I lost mine last year, he was only 7 but had developed a quick cancer that led to lots of complications. I tried in vain for some time to keep him alive but it was the kindest (and hardest) thing to do.

Cats are very good at hiding pain.

I am very sorry to hear how poorly your car is. As others have said, it’s hard to let go, but your vet has given you advice in the best interest of the animal. I know it’s hard to take and not easy to accept.
It’s often said said that that it’s better to make the decision a week too early, than a day too late. I wish with our cat (similar age) and we tried her with medication for seizures, when she disappeared. I would rather have had a known ending than always wondering what happened to her.

I don't think we can see it in our beloved pets.

Some can, some can't, or perhaps can but don't want to. It is an awful decision to have to make because you know your own feelings are bound up in it, even though what you really want to do is what is best for the animal. So you want to prolong their lives and then ask whether that's for you or for them. You don't want to have the power to take away life if it could be time they would enjoy. But I do think it is something you sometimes need to step up and do.

When I had my horse put down the yard owner was all ready to have a difficult conversation with me about it. It was her partner who said 'I think you'll find Miler already knows'. And I did. Make the decision for them, choose to let them have a good end whilst they still have some enjoyment.

The fitting is very likely a result of a build up of massive toxins due to kidney failure. Your cat IS suffering OP, please understand this.

if your cat is eating and drinking my view is that you do not play god with your cat. Please seek another vet - this is your family pet and you must do what is right for your pet.

I’m sorry you’re upset, it is very sad, but the vet knows your cat is in pain and is trying to get you to see that it’s not fair to keep them in suffering. Pets mask pain, so I’m sure the cat does love getting affection but they are still suffering.
You draw an analogy to people, but actually many people wish they could be helped to die in dignity rather than left suffering, but we don’t allow that option.

Say goodbye, stay with them through the end to reassure them & grieve in the knowledge you loved them and did the best thing for them, even though it hurt you to do it.

It's a horrible decision to have to make and perhaps the vet did not break the news as gently as they could have done but I really don't think a vet would recommend putting to sleep there and then during a check-up appointment unless they had good reason.
Has this vet been treating this cat for a while? Because if it is the vet who has been treating it then they will know exactly what is going on and the prognosis.
Having seizures is a sign that things are nearing the end.

It is better to let a cat go one week too early rather than a day too late where they are suffering.
They are good at masking too.
On the day I had decided (and booked the appointment) to PTS, my cat suddenly woke up and ate a load of food (which he hadn't been doing) and was quite happy but it was the right time for him to go and at least he had enjoyed his last meal.

If you are not happy with the vet's assessment of the situation then ask to see another vet for a second opinion but perhaps it might be better to make a decision in the next couple of days to let him go.

Please think of who you are keeping the cat alive for. I had to have my beautiful 18 year old girl put to sleep on Monday and if I’m honest it was a few days too late. I found it so hard to make the decision that I kept convincing myself she was improving when deep down I knew it wasn’t true.

When it came to take her, it made it so much harder knowing that I should have insisted on an appointment on the Friday rather than selfishly being pleased I would get an extra few days with her.
I know previous posters have said it but it really is better for it to be a week early than a day late.

For me personally, I would let the cat die naturally as I'm in the thought process of I wouldnt agree to a family member, friend or actually anyone being sent to death in any circumstances!

BUT....your vet is doing their job and giving you their professional opinion. Maybe the week of medicine is to see him/her again for reassurance or to see if youve changed your mind without pushing the matter there and then.

OP I’ve been in your position, I ended up having argument with the vet.

I think it’s ethically wrong for vets to pressure owners to euthanise just as it is wrong for doctors to pressure women for or against abortion.

Every owner has to make their own choice for that animal. The vet does not know the animal as well as the owner.

I’ve one cat PTS with pancreatic cancer who was clearly in pain - it was a no brainer. We were all in agreement.

But I’ve had a chronically ill animal who fought hard to live and wanted to stay and I wasn’t prepared to euthanise just became the vet said so.

She died peacefully in her sleep at home, having spent her last few days visiting the places she liked to sit in the house, lying with family members and lying in the sun.

Everyone has a right to life, and for some it’s worth continuing even they’re suffering. People are terrified of suffering these days. Cats have been dying without vets help for 1000s of years.

At the same time you need to be prepared to let her go. If the medication is withdrawn she may die sooner and that may be for the best. While you don’t have to euthanise if you don’t want to, equally you wouldn’t want prolong her life artificially with medication, beyond the point she wants to leave.

If you’re not happy with your vet, go see another one.

Please listen to the vet. Your cat is suffering- they do not suggest putting a car down ‘ there and then’without very very good cause.It is the hardest thing to do but it is the right one.

@HM1984

For me personally, I would let the cat die naturally as I'm in the thought process of I wouldnt agree to a family member, friend or actually anyone being sent to death in any circumstances!

BUT....your vet is doing their job and giving you their professional opinion. Maybe the week of medicine is to see him/her again for reassurance or to see if youve changed your mind without pushing the matter there and then.

Exactly. As the Tibetans say: treat every pig as if it were your grandmother.

Sorry for the very late follow-up post, I was just sorting out dinner. Thanks everyone who responded, even those who are admonishing me for not putting my cat down sooner or what I said about the vet, I still appreciate your input and kind words about my cat. The poster who said I was very cruel and nothing else though I don't appreciate your inflammatory post and you're cruel for trolling me at a time like this. I would never be cruel to an animal, if I believed my cat was suffering to a great extent I would have put him to sleep by now.

Also, just to clarify, I said I thought the vet's behaviour was vile not her as a person, obviously I don't know her to call her vile but her behaviour was very cold and she had very poor communication skills. There was no empathy in her words, she just seemed annoyed I didn't agree with her then dumped my cat's cage outside on the floor after the phone consultation and said nothing (as the advice was given via phone due to social distancing still in place). He was also only seen by the vet for 5 minutes so hardly a thorough examination. I didn't sense she was a caring person who was thinking about my cat's best interests, sorry but I stand by this. I didn't want to go into too much detail originally in case I identified myself or the practice but that is what happened.

I'm not deluded, I know my cat is elderly and has multiple health conditions but what I'm struggling with at the moment is the heart disease seemed to be improving and he has started looking more relaxed and like his 'old' self again. He still uses his litter box, eats and drinks regularly and likes rolling over and being petted and being lifted up and falling asleep whilst leaning on me. He hates going to the vets and despite his age and health problems he always puts up a bit of a fight which is why I don't think they like treating him but I've always seen this as a positive about him that he still has that core survival instinct when he feels in danger.

To be honest, if he stopped eating and drinking, using his litter box etc. I would see that as him telling me he's ready to go. Am I wrong to wait until he gives me this sign? I've heard a lot of people talk about how they knew it was time to put their cat to sleep when they stopped eating but am I mistaken to assume whilst he's still eating/drinking, grooming himself and things like that he wants to go on?

@MyCatsSlave

Please think of who you are keeping the cat alive for. I had to have my beautiful 18 year old girl put to sleep on Monday and if I’m honest it was a few days too late. I found it so hard to make the decision that I kept convincing myself she was improving when deep down I knew it wasn’t true.

When it came to take her, it made it so much harder knowing that I should have insisted on an appointment on the Friday rather than selfishly being pleased I would get an extra few days with her.
I know previous posters have said it but it really is better for it to be a week early than a day late.

Who says? Personally I think that’s nonsense.

I’d much rather have 2 more weeks of life.

YABU, your responsibility is to make the right choices for your pet and given what you describe, it’s cruel to prolong his life. He’s lived to a grand old age. Let him go with dignity. Don’t pull him along for your own benefit. It’s shit but if you have animals you accept this responsibility.

I've had numerous cats euthanised due to old age and infirmity, and every single on of them has been carried out at a 'routine' check-up appointment, so no, I don't think your vet is doing anything out of the ordinary.

I think in some ways that is easier to cope with than arranging an appointment in advance for it to be carried out. I also think you need to carefully consider for whose benefit exactly you want your cat kept alive.

My last one was ill for the last 2-3 years of his life. He lived to 20 so was elderly anyway, but I distinctly remember lifting him up one morning a couple of weeks before he went, and he was completely limp. Not passed out or ill, just totally uninterested in interacting and lacking in enthusiasm. I knew right there and then he really didn't want to be around anymore, even though for most of the time right up until the end he would come for a cuddle, enjoy a pat etc.

I think you really should listen to the vet tbh.

I would get a new vet. My dads cat had similar with kidney issues. The vet actually gave him details of where to get cheaper tablets instead of the inflated prices they usually did. Our cat didn't suffer and got another year of life.

@ReluctantRenegade

Sorry for the very late follow-up post, I was just sorting out dinner. Thanks everyone who responded, even those who are admonishing me for not putting my cat down sooner or what I said about the vet, I still appreciate your input and kind words about my cat. The poster who said I was very cruel and nothing else though I don't appreciate your inflammatory post and you're cruel for trolling me at a time like this. I would never be cruel to an animal, if I believed my cat was suffering to a great extent I would have put him to sleep by now.

Also, just to clarify, I said I thought the vet's behaviour was vile not her as a person, obviously I don't know her to call her vile but her behaviour was very cold and she had very poor communication skills. There was no empathy in her words, she just seemed annoyed I didn't agree with her then dumped my cat's cage outside on the floor after the phone consultation and said nothing (as the advice was given via phone due to social distancing still in place). He was also only seen by the vet for 5 minutes so hardly a thorough examination. I didn't sense she was a caring person who was thinking about my cat's best interests, sorry but I stand by this. I didn't want to go into too much detail originally in case I identified myself or the practice but that is what happened.

I'm not deluded, I know my cat is elderly and has multiple health conditions but what I'm struggling with at the moment is the heart disease seemed to be improving and he has started looking more relaxed and like his 'old' self again. He still uses his litter box, eats and drinks regularly and likes rolling over and being petted and being lifted up and falling asleep whilst leaning on me. He hates going to the vets and despite his age and health problems he always puts up a bit of a fight which is why I don't think they like treating him but I've always seen this as a positive about him that he still has that core survival instinct when he feels in danger.

To be honest, if he stopped eating and drinking, using his litter box etc. I would see that as him telling me he's ready to go. Am I wrong to wait until he gives me this sign? I've heard a lot of people talk about how they knew it was time to put their cat to sleep when they stopped eating but am I mistaken to assume whilst he's still eating/drinking, grooming himself and things like that he wants to go on?

See my above post.

As long as he is eating and drinking and enjoying being petted - he’s ok. He might be suffering but he still wants to be here.

When he stops eating and drinking that’s the sign he’s ready to go. You’re absolutely right about that.

Cats are intelligent and they are intelligent about dying. When they’re ready to go they tend to go off under a chair or a bush, stop eating and drinking and get ready to go.

It doesn’t matter what the sheep say on here, trust your own judgment on that.

Tell you what i think you should do..

17 years is a very good innings for a domestic cat. He poor old boy isnt at all well and his quality of life isnt what it would be if he were younger.

Don't fear for him he won't know what death is but he won't be in pain anymore he will be at peace. You will be in pain at his loss that the real problem here. Now i suggest that you take him back next week and have a further chat with the vet and if his/her advice is being PTS then for his sake just please let them do it, after all it will be one little bit less stress for him as most cats don't love seeing the Vet do they and it will be over.

Then greive a bit for him.

Next go to the cats home and adoppt a young homeless cat and you'll i'm sure remember the good times you had with the olde boy but now have some good times wth the younger boy or girl.

Now please can you just do ii for Cats sake and yours?

Thank you!