...to think this is vile behaviour from a vet?

[ReluctantRenegade]

Hi all,

I'm very upset as I type this and desperately need some advice. The situation is my cat's 17 and has a few chronic health conditions including kidney (stage 2 at last blood analysis a few months ago) and heart disease. He had two seizures about a week ago which I think were caused by the hot weather as he was struggling to keep cool despite our best efforts. He has had one seizure before several months ago so three in total.

I took him to the vets today and they recommended having him put down because of the combination of these various illnesses which I can understand as on paper it looks bad but they don't live with him so aren't getting the full picture. I know they're professionals but they don't see him eating, sleeping and enjoying getting affection from his owners who've loved and cared for him for 17 years so they're just looking at him as a list of symptoms rather than as a living entity.

Anyway, I said to the vet putting him to sleep has been something that's on my mind but he has improved in some ways now he is taking diuretics for the heart disease. Obviously the seizures were nasty to witness and probably awful for him and he was quite disoriented following this but this is improving now and he hasn't had further seizures since the weather has cooled down.

What disgusted me however and made me feel utterly powerless and on my own with regards to his care is she said they could put him down then and there at the appointment even though he was just booked in for a check-up so naturally I refused as it seemed too abrupt and I don't think he is suffering to the extent he needs to be put down immediately. Of course there is an element of suffering with any chronic health condition but people suffer with multiple ailments and aren't sent to their deaths, their conditions are managed.

What really has upset me though other than their haste to end his life is the vet would only give me enough diuretic medication for him for the next week as she said she thinks he needs to be put down within the next week. Is this even allowed? She thinks he is suffering but is going to make him suffer more by not authorising medication to keep him comfortable for his time left in the world, whether that be weeks or months? AIBU or is this highly unethical of her to refuse to re-prescribe medication for him?

Lastly, this vets is subsidised so I think there's an element of it being cheaper for them to have him die than treating him there and have heard other owners disagree with this practice's 'recommendation' to put their pets to sleep. I pay what I can afford but it's cheaper than a standard vets so I think this is probably relevant to their eagerness to put animals down.

The best thing for an animal is to be out of pain, I wish more owners would think of the pets first and not 'oh I can't live without them'

The vet sounds very sensible

@user127819

I wanted to add that when I look back on the deaths of my pets, there are some I look back on with relief and peace and there is one that I look back on with discomfort and guilt. The one I look back on with discomfort and guilt was one where I waited too long. I missed the signs of severe suffering and I have to live knowing that my pet was in severe pain for several hours before I did anything.

There were others where I wasn't sure at the time if it was a little bit too soon, but those are ones I have peace and relief looking back at because I know they never knew severe suffering.

A week too soon is always better than a day too late.

I agree. I know in my heart that I left it a bit late with one of my cats. I feel really angry and ashamed with myself when I look at the last photos I took of him and realise how poor he looks, how thin and sad. I would never make the same mistake again. I try to comfort myself by remembering that sometimes we honestly don't notice the deterioration, it takes anothers eye to see it.

How ill and uncomfortable do you want your cat to get before you let it go OP? It's the last act of love you can give your pet, knowing that you have cared more for their wellbeing than your own feelings.

I had my cat pts too soon. I bitterly regret it. I was so distressed and with hindsight I think the vet was more focused on 'closure' for my sake rather than focusing on what was right for my pet.

If your cat seems peaceful and relaxed, there's no need to rush into anything. Cats only hide pain to a certain extent, just as with people you know very well you can tell when they are not right. See another vet. Perhaps go on your local FB groups and ask for a name of a compassionate local vet.

So sorry your cat is unwell OP, you must be heartbroken. Having that conversation with the vet must have been so hard

One thing I would reiterate is cats are SO good at hiding their pain. My lovely boy was poisoned aged 1, by the time he showed any signs and was taken to the vets the vet said it was the worst kidney function she had ever seen, despite eating, drinking, going out and cuddling us only a bit more than normal. The vet had no idea how he was still alive. The reality was our cat had been in AGONY for most likely a week or so, I was horrified at the thought of this- we had no idea. I can't imagine what it was like for him having no idea why he felt like that or what was happening to him.

Obviously if we had caught it super early I would have pushed to attempt treatment, I was devastated and cried for weeks. But as we hadn't I wish he had shown signs earlier so that he could have been put out of his misery, it breaks my heart to think about how horrible his last few days must have been. I thought I knew my pet... I didn't in this case.

If you really think it is the vet being overly keen to euthanise please find a way to seek a second opinion within a day so that if they are unfortunately correct your cat doesn't suffer for any longer than necessary as my poor boy did

@cat234. Thank you for being their advocate. The kindness and compassion in your posts has brought tears to my eyes.

@Suzi888

My dog has markers for kidney disease, the signs he is suffering will be: Increased thirst and urination Lack of appetite Lethargy Vomiting Peeing blood High blood pressure, combined with blood & urine test results showing kidney failure. You can also get a kidney transplant and dialysis for an animal. I’m not saying I would proceed but it is an option. A subsidised vets will limit your treatment options ie PDSA.

What sort of a caring pet owner would wait until they could tick off those awful , distressing (for the animal) symptoms, sorry signs before they asked a vet to intervene. How selfish would you have to be to allow an animal to suffer like that because your emotional need to keep it alive was greater than the animals physical need to be offered a dignified and painless release.

Of course a charity is going to limit treatment options, especially when faced with old and sick animals who have reached the end of their life. They have to spread a given amount of money to help as many animals as they can, they can't offer to do £10,000 orthopaedic operations even if they wanted to. Actually as someone who has always paid for vet treatment I have also refused expensive treatment options that are invasive or stressful when I feel that my pet has reached the time of its life when a few more weeks or months of life at the cost of being held down to be given medication twice a day does not seem a fair exchange.

Do get a second opinion, but do so immediately. An emergency vet if your cat has another seizure tonight. I understand not liking a vet, but they are doing their best with limited interaction with owners right now.

Please don't let your boy suffer.

Being pressured to abort is comparable to being pressured to euthanise, insofar as both situations pertain to endIng the life of something.

There is no comparison between a perfectly healthy fetus and a terminally ill cat. You euthanize the later as an act of humane kindness, just the same as you would euthanize a terminally ill fetus without any need for anyone to 'pressure' anyone.

You might have a semblance of a point if both the cat and fetus in question were in perfect health with a good, long life ahead of them, but that is not the case here.

I had my cat pts too soon.

How do you know it was too soon?

When I went through a difficult divorce my 7 year old son was so upset I allowed him to have a kitten. He loved it and it lived a happy and healthy life until it was 17 and then it went off his food and had a seizure. He took cat to vets and got meds. After a week cat had another seizure worse than the last. I talked to my son through years and told him it was kinder to let him go than make him live in pain. My son refused as he loved cat so much. After two more weeks during which cat seemed happy, was eating tuna, sun bathing in garden and cuddling into my son he saw his cat have a seizure and cat could not stand up properly and he scooped him up and took to vets to be pts. He did not see cat have first two seizures and when he got home from work the cat looked fine. I think if he had seen it happen he would have taken it to be pts sooner. The vet told him once cats of that age have a seizure they do not live much longer.

Could you not spoil your cat with tuna fillets, and love your cat for one more week and then take him to be pts to save him from a final and painful seizure that would be very distressing for both the cat and you.

My son felt very guilty after for not taking his cat in the week before. He said if he had seen how bad it was he would have let him go then.

We all want our cats to live forever but we know they can't. Letting them go before they are in too much pain is the last thing we can do for our wonderful cat.

I feel sad for you as I can see how much you love it.

I understand where you're coming from, OP. One of our (now departed) cats was 17 nearly 18 with chronic kidney disease and an overactive thyroid. He was managing really well on his medication and was a happy chap, the vet said he was quite miraculous! We noticed over a few weeks that he developed an occasional cough. I was wary as his twin brother had died of a chest tumour a few years before, and that started with a cough. The vet didn't think he had anything wrong, not without doing a scan etc which wasn't recommended due to his age.

A few weeks later he was at the vet for a checkup and another vet did some kind of scan that didn't require sedation - and said our cat had a tumour in his chest and it was pushing his heart up, he should be put to sleep there and then. My partner had taken our cat to the vet so I wasn't there, and luckily my partner isn't the sort to just accept what he's told. He said no, that wouldn't be happening and the vet would come to our house to do it later on that day.

My partner brought our kitty home and told me the devastating news. We agreed it had to be done, but it was so hard because our kitty seemed fine. I let him out for a last wander and after he returned the vet showed up, and our lovely kitty passed away peacefully at home.

We took some time to get over the whole thing because right up to the end, our dear cat seemed perfectly ok. However in reality he was only probably a day or so from death, and not a nice death. We spared him that, but it is a very hard thing to do. Thinking back he was showing some minor signs of discomfort when settling down to sleep, but overall I feel he was spared a painful distressing end.

Get a second opinion if you feel you should, OP. You also need time to think things through away from the pressurised setting of a vet's office. I wish you and your kitty well.

If you want your children to become rich, tell them to train as a vet or dentist! Immeasurable earning power in private practice!
How many of us would say no to pretty much any treatment a vet recommends for your beloved animal. We'd find the money somehow.

However, its likely the vet has only given you a weeks medication because they want to assess the cat again in a week and it forces you to take him.
Diuretics cause Potassium depletion and can lead to an irregular heart rate, so because you say the cat has a heart condition, he will need to be seen again.
So sad for you, I know cos I have one that age aswell.
Keep him cool by wetting his ears, paws and face with cold water. keep curtains drawn closed so one room is always cool and in summer I remove all belly hair with hubbys beard trimmer so I can cool their belly with cold water.
They won't euthanise him unless you agree but only do that if you feel he's suffering.
Love him lots and make the decision when you feel its right for him.
You are right tho, vets can come across as quite dispassionate as can doctors.
You are the best judge of his quality of life, is he eating, drinking, not fitting or throwing up. You will do the best for him as you love him.

Sorry op but YABU.

The vet has assessed your cat as being near the end. As a subsidised vets it makes perfect sense for them to only prescribe a weeks worth of medication rather than a month or more which the odds are will end up in the bin.

Presumably if you refuse to PTS then the vet will prescribe more when needed rather than refusing to treat.

I'm so sorry your cat is so ill.

I also agree with the vet. I think if the vet says he's suffering then he is.

So sorry.

And please do ignore all of the ‘you know best hun’ posts, for the sake of your cat.

If you take any advice from this thread, take it from the vets that are posting.

I’m really sorry you’re facing this situation, I’ve been there and it’s absolutely heartbreaking.

Nobody wants to put their pet to sleep, however.
You’ve got to try and see past your emotions and your own wants and needs and put your cats first.

It must be awful for a vet too, so please don’t think they’re offered this on a whim. They must really think your pet needs to be put out of their misery.

I can’t even begin to imagine how distressing it would be for a cat to have a seizure too 😥

I had my most favourite cat pts at the age 8 as she had heart failure and a lung tumour, I still grieve for her, but the vet comforted me by saying a cat doesn’t care how long their life is, they care about the quality of their lives. Your cat has had a good long life, I agree with the vet.

The seizures mean he is suffering, and once a cats kidneys start going they rarely come back from that. I would have put him down after the seizures to be honest, even though he's eating and drinking. A cat can't understand why that's happening to them, and it's not fixable so why let them suffer through it?

I had a horse put down at a young age because I couldn't get a guarantee from a vet that surgery would help him. He would have likely always suffered through his life even retired and that's not a life for any animal. If I had got a guarantee that he would be fine, but not rideable, he'd still be here today. Its a hard decision, but your emotions don't matter in it, the pets life does.

This thread is full of examples of pet owners who are clearly clueless -from promoting illegal and unethical procedures to claiming behaviours indicate something that they don't, Or owners that prioritise their own feelings and responses over safeguarding their pet's welfare.

This is so true. The welfare of the pet should always come first, and vets are fair more qualified to know if they are seriously ill than any owner is.

@viques
Before you start wagging your finger at me....

Go educate yourself.
1 A vet told me that information!!!!!!!

So if you like I’ll give you his details and you can go and argue with him.
2 kidney disease is a chronic and advanced disease so those symptoms set in fast and yes they are distressing.
3 I doubt anyone would sit around and wait...the peeing of blood can mean many things. Thank goodness I always have my animals checked. I’d hate to have them put to sleep unnecessarily just because it suits my purse and they don’t like taking a tablet now and then. You know, like a working tablet (I always hide them in food)

And for clarification my dog’s disease was found early. His treatment is preventative measures only and he still may not get it and has NO symptoms.
4 a subsidised vet wouldn’t have carried out his operation or conducted the advanced blood tests that found the disease in the first place!!!!!!!

I agree. I know in my heart that I left it a bit late with one of my cats. I feel really angry and ashamed with myself when I look at the last photos I took of him and realise how poor he looks, how thin and sad. I would never make the same mistake again. I try to comfort myself by remembering that sometimes we honestly don't notice the deterioration, it takes anothers eye to see it.

My parents left one of the family dogs to die 'at peace' at home. They showed me a photograph of him taken a couple of days before he died and I was so shocked and upset. I could not understand why on earth they hadn't taken him to a vet sooner and had him put to sleep. He was all but a skeleton by the time he died.

I will never let my parents take on the care of one of my animals because this is not the first or the only time they've left the decision too late, or failed to step up and take the decision at all. We can save our animals from suffering. And yes, that is upsetting for us, but that's what you take on when you decide to become responsible for an animal.

Sorry @viques I realise that might sound like I'm criticising you, and that's harsh because you're already beating yourself up. I agree with you it's very difficult and we sometimes leave it too late. The thing is to learn from this and try to avoid doing the same thing again. It also means we can pass this information on to other owners, and try to avoid the same for their animals.

I have had this from vets.

Our first cat was diagnosed with Kidney disease at 14. I was told I could pts as it would only get worse or I could try to extend his life by I think steroid injections.
He started out at once per week and then every two then 3 etc till he was given the all clear at 19.
He died at 21

I have been told to euthanise other cats for various ailments that are supposedly life threatening and will impact on the quality of their lives.
Problem is no one told the cat

I think you make your own mind up.

Dp was given 48 hours to live, then when he lasted the 48 hours he was eventually given 2 years.
4 years later he lives a relatively normal life

No one, not even the most qualified vets or doctors know how an individual will fare.
They can only go by the average.

I would change vets and get the heart medication from elsewhere and look at (I think they were) regular steroid injections for the kidneys.

op I had a cat that lived to 21. She had kidney disease and was on a special diet. There were times where I thought it was the end and just when I started thinking about having her PTS she perked up. If she is eating/drinking, trust your instinct.

The vet suggested having her PTS but gave me the weekend with her. He said they could come out and do it at home which felt less clinical. By the Sunday night I knew I would need to call them the next day. She does early Monday morning snuggled up to me. I feel very lucky. I had made the decision, I knew it was the right time but she decided to go first. It is heartbreaking, but you will know when the time is right

My cat had thyroid and kidney disease which was picked up very early, so she lived on quite happily (I think) for about three years with expensive medication.

I was aware that days of her being unwell were getting more frequent, and was hugely upset when her vet said that it was kindest to put her down, that she was in pain. Euthanasia and cremation weren't cheap either. It was a hard decision, well, not hard, but very upsetting.

It sounds as if you are struggling to keep your elderly cat alive for your benefit rather than your cats - you should accept your vets' advice.

If it is a charitable subsidised service, even if they are thinking of the economics, which I suspect they are not, there is the ethical dilemma of spending ££££ to keep your cat alive and in pain for a further few weeks, or that ££££ spread between maybe ten other animals who would benefit more.
If you doubt that, take your cat to a commercial vet, see if you get the same advice.
YABU - let your elderly cat die in peace.