AIBU to say that if you won't wear masks and/or keep distance from others in public spaces you should stay at home

[CaptainMonkey]

... and leave the rest of us to get on with the work of figuring out how to open up social spaces in a safe way without being distracted by your egocentric tedious freedom fighting? Why do you want to crowd people and breathe all over them anyway? If you don't want to be out and about without doing so, just stay at home. We've got enough to do right now and don't need your nonsense.

If you don’t feel safe in society you stay home. Sorted
We all have the right to question the use of masks and other restrictions. It’s Not normal and should not be accepted so blindingly

I wear a mask when I have to because I'm generally a coniant person and it doesn't bother me but I absolutely agree that most people including me are not doing it 'right' and if I were to be infectious.am far more likely to pass it on through touching the mask and then the trolley, handrail whatever. I'm a teacher. It will be utterly pointless in schools for the same reason but we'll do it no doubt.

Where are all these hordes of alleged anti-mask libertarians hiding out?

On mumsnet, railing against the injustices of masks, and telling vulnerable people they should stay home.

Yet if the government had said don't wear a mask, no one would.

If there’s one thing these threads are good for it’s for my mental list of who’s an arsehole on here

The broadcast media, which did such a good job of creating fear in the population, continues to be relentless and I feel sorry for you and all those living in abject terror. Just imagine what it would be like if they allowed the true picture to emerge:

It’s the BBC Six O’Clock News and Health Editor Hugh Pym is updating Sophie Raworth on the Covid-19 pandemic.

Sophie: So, Hugh, we’ve seen another rise in cases today?

Hugh: Yes, Sophie, there were 1,040 reported daily cases in England and Wales.

Sophie: Gosh, that’s quite an uptick.

Hugh: Well, it sounds a lot, Sophie, but we have to bear in mind that we are testing a lot more people so we are going to find more evidence of infection. Over 122,000 tests were processed, the most ever in a single day – 1,000 positives out of 122,000 tests is really very small.

Sophie: Still, it’s a major cause for concern generally?

Hugh: Well, not really. The PCR test is not totally reliable. It’s coming up with quite a lot of false positives. What the viewers probably don’t realise is the test can detect remnants of the virus. So someone who had Covid back in July, say, could be recorded today as a positive test, but he or she is now fully recovered.

Sophie (checking her notes): But we do have the very real threat of more local lockdowns in places like Bedford because there are these spikes in Covid cases?

Hugh (sighs): Well, they’re not really spikes, Sophie. A lot of healthy younger people are getting Covid now and they don’t have any symptoms at all. They don’t even know they’ve been infected. But if they test positive they’re added to the list. But a positive test really only becomes a “case” when someone gets sick enough that they need to be admitted to hospital.

Sophie: And how many cases are being admitted to hospital, Hugh?

Hugh (looks sheepish): Not very many to be honest with you.

Sophie: But we’re still in the middle of a global pandemic?

Hugh: Ah, but are we? There are 141,000 hospital beds in England, Sophie. Today, just 599 of those beds are occupied by patients with Covid-19.

Sophie: You’re kidding me!

Hugh: No, I’m not. We have 1,257 hospitals in total so rather a large number of hospitals don’t have a single Covid case.

Sophie: So why aren’t hospitals fully open to non-Covid patients, Hugh?

Hugh: That’s a really good question, Sophie. Could some NHS managers be saving money by keeping wards closed? The Department of Health doesn’t have a clue what’s going on, as per usual. And, of course, a lot of doctors have been working from home in the south of France and they can’t get back because of the quarantine.

Sophie (frantically consults notes): What about the deaths, though, Hugh? They’re really really bad.

Hugh: Sorry to disappoint, but NHS England reported just two Covid-related hospital deaths today. Wales and Scotland haven’t had any Covid deaths for quite some time. In fact, deaths in the UK have been below average for the past seven weeks now. It’s starting to look like deaths in 2020 will be no higher than they were in 2019.

Sophie: Then how could the Government possibly justify keeping all the social distancing measures and imposing lockdowns?

Hugh: Er… I think they’re worried that if they tell the public the truth it will be hard to regain control."

The vulnerable don't have a choice - they're stuck being vulnerable and no amount of temporary v v minor inconvenience makes them less vulnerable. The rest of us should stick to the rules where we can, and,if you don't like them, stay at home.

The rest of us should stick to the rules where we can, and,if you don't like them, stay at home.

So I’ll stick to the rules that say I don’t have to wear a mask and I won’t stay at home, I’ll go out and about my normal business. Thanks for confirming.

In Wales you don't need to wear a mask in public.

So what is different between Wales and England.

@Doccomplaint

The rest of us should stick to the rules where we can, and,if you don't like them, stay at home.

So I’ll stick to the rules that say I don’t have to wear a mask and I won’t stay at home, I’ll go out and about my normal business. Thanks for confirming.

Masks are a distraction to the argument. Social distancing costs the individual absolutely nothing in many cases, why would you not? We're talking about things like giving people a bit more space when you're in a queue, it's not difficult.

@Userzzz

They are not socially responsible norms. They are restrictions that will not be norms because there’s enough sane reasonable people out that that know this it’s all based on BULLSHIT. If you can’t handle going out with people not adhering to this shit, you should stay home.

Spot on! 👏

We're talking about things like giving people a bit more space when you're in a queue, it's not difficult.

And I do this. It’s other people who get right up to me. Reach over me. Mostly wearing masks. And tut and eye roll when I ask them to step back.

If you don’t feel safe in society you stay home. Sorted

There are millions of vulnerable people. Inc teachers, shop workers, emergency services, carers, etc. Society would collapse if they all stayed home.

I feel sorry for you and all those living in abject terror

Just because someone wears a mask and follows the 2m rule doesnt make them terrified

Social distancing costs the individual absolutely nothing in many cases, why would you not? We're talking about things like giving people a bit more space when you're in a queue, it's not difficult.

Fully agree, but it seems there are lots of idiots too thick to do something so simple as keeping a bit of distance.

@PuzzlingPieces So very very true.

I wear one because it's the law, not because I think it works. I've had covid so I'm not worried about catching it.

I'm one of life's compliers. I'll wear the mask while the sign is up telling us to. But I'm finding that now everyone's in masks there's pretty much NO social distancing going on and not a lot of the 'other measures' either.

Mask compliance round here seems high. Mask fiddling is very high and creative ways to wear them pretty high too. Yesterday in Tesco i noticed the hand sanitiser at the door was all gone. The wiping paper for the trolly handles was gone. Trolly guy was not wearing gloves or a mask. People were queuing in the normal way for the tills, standing right behind each you while you load the conveyer, kids squeezing past you while you pack to go sit on the window ledge to wait for their parents, people to get to stuff, shop floor staff not in masks, most of the cashiers not in masks, not using gloves or gel between customers. I mean none of this worries me - that's not my point - it's just starting to feel quite silly to be the one walking round in a surgical mask leaving gaps for people (which other people just march into now ....) and waiting back a bit when everyone else is going on as in normal times.

I'm wondering what the tipping point will be.

lasite

Most people are still doing the 2m locally, though i have a suspicion that those people NOT doing it never did

Still doing the covid dance with some people where you both move in the same direction to get 2m apart 😀

Why do you want to crowd people and breathe all over them anyway

Some people just don't have any concept of personal space.

Or they do, but it's in their interests to try to crowd you out, like on a railway station platform when you've got the place where the carriage door is so they try to crowd you in the hope that you'll move up so they can get the space instead.

As for masks, there is evidence that wearing them reduces transmission by 70-80%. Even if it's only 30-40% that's a lot of cases prevented. It doesn't inconvenience me to wear a mask (other than cost). I've said this loads of times, but for those who don't actively listen - we were not told to wear masks at the height of the pandemic because there was a shortage. Now there are plenty (at a cost). I actually did wear a face covering from the outset of lockdown when I went to a supermarket.

He could pass it on to me, who my ds could then carry it on to my mum with chrons who babysits him, my 85 year old grandparents with angina, or even me with an autoimmune disease. He could have killed us all and didnt give a toss. Its unbelievable

However, this is hyperbole. The chances of him having the virus were vanishingly small. And even if he did have it, passing it on in a few seconds, even more vanishingly small. Perspective please.

@Doccomplaint

We're talking about things like giving people a bit more space when you're in a queue, it's not difficult.

And I do this. It’s other people who get right up to me. Reach over me. Mostly wearing masks. And tut and eye roll when I ask them to step back.

Well they're dicks then. But somehow mask wearing has become conflated with basic courtesy.

When I see people not wearing a mask I assume there's a reason and don't think any more about it. When someone doesn't give me space in a queue or reaches over me i think 'dick', regardless if they have a mask.

You can wear a mask and still be a dick. You can not be wearing a mask and not be a dick. Mask wearing and social distancing in public are two totally different issues imo.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer - Still doing the covid dance with some people where you both move in the same direction to get 2m apart

Yes and while you're both dithering around doing that some other bugger just comes and stands between you and you're then both like

I wear one because I have been following expert advice from scientists

Thankfully the government (that have managed the pandemic woefully) does listen and take advice from them at times and not just Dominic Cummings

I don’t fear government control over the population probably because I’ve lived in a country where that is compared to here a police state it’s laughable to think we are heading that way

Still it’s an excuse for the selfish to keep using and they can fool themselves into believing they are putting over an intelligent argument

Of course there is the issue that people are not using them correctly it takes times to get to get used to wearing them. I’m not sure how this will have a detrimental impact when many are using them correctly along with social distancing and hygiene. That’s not An excuse not to wear one yourself. You can try to use a mask correctly

@Frenchpastry

Particles of a virus spread via the respiratory tract will normally spread out in small concentrations and fall over a large area depending on the force behind their exit when a person breaths or speaks or eats etc. A mask ensures that some of those particles (not all by any stretch) gather and stay on the mask in one very high concentration. You cannot touch the mask at all, even slightly without coming into contact with an unnaturally high concentration of any virus that may be on there and then you spread that onto every other surface / person you come into contact with before you adequately sanitise your hands. So ask yourself honestly... Everyone who thinks the masks are going to save us all... Ask yourself honestly.... Do you never, ever touch your mask other than between taking it on and off and do you immediately sanitise your hands without touching another object or person every single time you so much as brush your finger against the mask? Do you wash the mask between every use? No matter how short that use? Do you change masks between uses if you are going in and out of different shops and taking it off between? Is every mask you wear fitted perfectly to you unique facial structure to ensure it fits well enough to work effectively? Do you always wear your mask perfectly? And now for the important bit because even if you answer yes honestly to all of that, do you think that every other person can also answer yes honestly to all of that? Because unless that is the case these masks do not protect us! All the evidence that supports the use of masks as a protective factor is based on people using masks perfectly! And we live in a shockingly imperfect world.

That last bit is a lie. www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now# www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

Don't inflict your stupidity on others.

Of course mask wearing isn't perfect, it isn't meant to be as we're not in hospital aseptic conditions when we're out and about, in the supermarket etc.

But I wear a mask gladly, as it reduces any transmission from me to others, and from others to me, and that doubling of a reduction will be enough to make life safer so long as I also keep my distance and keep washing/sanitising etc.

It isn't perfect but it helps a lot when we're trying to get back to some sort of normality. And I think most people know this, those who are not mask wearing because of 'freedoms' (whatever that's about) are being totally selfish. Great if you don't care, go and catch COVID, please yourself, but you have no right to stand close up and breath/cough all over me....