Are our kids being thrown under the bus

[Pixxie7]

Chris Whitney has said that children are safe to go back to school because they are at low risk of complications from Covid.is this another case of politics being more important than lives?

I am baffled- the risk is not with the children, it’s with adults working in the school and to parents. We’d be “Throwing children under the bus” if we not try to get them back in school and keep them there. I also think some people are totally unable to get the risk into perspective.

There is no risk free situation here. Although, the real risk is not to children, especially younger children. It is a tiny, tiny bit higher in older teenagers, but still incredibly low. I.e. if a child or adolescent become infected, the likelihood of that child becoming seriously unwell is tiny, the risk of them dying is even lower. There will be certain children for whom the risks are significantly higher and the decisions taken around school attendance for those children will be more nuanced, which is also true for children living with someone who is at high risk should they catch the virus. Plans must be put in place to manage the educational needs of those children for whom it is too risky to go to school.

But for the vast majority of children in the event they did catch the virus, they will be fine. The risk of keeping them out of school, however, are infinitely higher- in terms of education, social development and mental health.

We do need to put plans and procedures in place to protect teachers/school staff too. But the main risk to teachers is other adults, not the children. Older children wearing masks in corridors is fine, but there is evidence to suggest that they can be detrimental in young children (they fiddle with them and actually touch their face more often, increasing risk of catching it). Do we need to be careful about what we do abs why we do it.

In many cases adults are the index case and the source of infection. So parents and school staff will have to be careful about adhering to social distancing from each other, hand hygiene etc.

We take risks every day- we just try to mitigate them. So, if measures such as masks in corridors etc are what keeps children in school, then fine. If you are a healthy adult under 45, you are at greater risk of being killed or seriously hurt in a car accident than you are from dying due to Covid. On that basis, unless you are at risk or living/caring with someone who is high risk, we do need to find a way to carry on. We can’t just shut everything down indefinitely.

If you are a healthy adult under 45, you are at greater risk of being killed or seriously hurt in a car accident than you are from dying due to Covid.

This got debunked on another thread recently. Wish I could find it, but it'll be lost to me now!

Ask your school return questions of the Prime Minister here: twitter.com/10downingstreet/status/1298227687211913218?s=21

WhyNotMe40
But even if it is the same school

I think it must be the same school - the authors of the study in your link thank the headmaster for his help in the acknowledgements - the same headmaster is quoted by the media.

Israel’s advice for other countries?

The lesson, experts say, is that even communities that have gotten the spread of the virus under control need to take strict precautions when reopening schools. Smaller classes, mask wearing, keeping desks six feet apart and providing adequate ventilation, they say, are likely to be crucial until a vaccine is available.

Just to point out that the extract you have quoted above doesn't have quotation marks in the NY Times article - the "experts" could be from anywhere - not that I necessarily disagree with them.

Clav studiously avoiding the question of whether our Chief Medical Officer was wrong to use flawed or inadequate data. He’s apparently the only person whose data she won’t pick at.

"teachers are not at increased risk of dying from COVID-19 compared to the general working-age population. ONS data identifies teaching as a lower risk profession (no profession is zero risk). International data support this."

"not at increased risk of dying" "no profession is zero risk" "International data support this" - is this a flawed conclusion based on data from other countries? How many teachers died from Covid-19 in Israel?

But what about the 100 other school outbreaks in Israel?

Wrt to the increased risk of dying. Firstly it's not necessarily dying I'm worried about - it's the taking it home to my terminally ill FIL and chronically ill DM, and the possibility of long term organ damage.
Secondly - if you can show me that this risk calculation is based on secondary schools with no masks, no social distancing and no ventilation.... Well then I'll accept it. Until then I'll say it is based on circumstances that do not correspond with what we will encounter next week.

But what about the 100 other school outbreaks in Israel?

Define "outbreak" - how many schools had more one than one person test positive for Covid?

Secondly - if you can show me that this risk calculation is based on secondary schools with no masks, no social distancing and no ventilation.

I can't. I am actually trying to be fairly neutral here - I'm not an expert, I haven't got all the answers. One thing I do know for certain - adults can transmit the virus to each other - therefore teachers and other school staff should keep away from each other as much as possible.

But there is no point in saying you have to keep away from each other if you go into a room the other teacher has been breathing in for the hour previously with no ventilation!

I'm not an expert either. But even I can see that chucking everyone back and fingers crossed is not going to work.

But there is no point in saying you have to keep away from each other if you go into a room the other teacher has been breathing in for the hour previously with no ventilation!

In that case no doubt teachers will avoid all pubs and restaurants for the foreseeable future.

www.tes.com/news/teachers-major-mat-wear-masks-when-schools-open

This is really good news - let’s hope lots f other MATs and individual schools follow suit,

I have been avoiding pubs and restaurants actually, but they have proper distancing, restricted numbers, and continuous ventilation! They tend to have extractor fans and windows that open, and doors that can be propped open to the outside!
If a classroom could look like your average pub does currently there wouldn't be an issue!

You really have no idea what the average classroom in an inner city comp looks like, do you

This is really good news

"Staff at 52 schools run by a major academy chain will be wearing face masks when they reopen, its founder has said."

"Steve Chalke, founder of the Oasis multi-academy trust, said secondary students will also be wearing masks in corridors."

As a parent, I have no objections at all to my 12 year old wearing a mask in corridors.

As a parent, I have no objections at all to my 12 year old wearing a mask in corridors

Well let’s hope your child’s indi school follows suit.

This is approx what my classes looked like last year. Except this room is wider - I had a 2 foot wide central aisle between rows and no space at the walls

You imagine what 28-34 students looks like on a room that size with ONE window that cracks one inch (h&s)

@Troppp

I don't understand why teachers are different to anyone else working during coronavirus? Nurses and careworkers seem to have just got on with it, so I don't really understand why teachers are "special" and acting like they are the only job that is high-risk?

See my message on page 17

@GinPin2

Telling teachers to go and teach, but make sure that they do not take coronavirus into school, without mandatory masks for ANYONE (including children), is like telling a shop worker to go and do retail but make sure they do not take coronavirus into the shop, without a plastic till screen or mandatory masks for ANYONE (including customers). Yet it is not like that, everything is being done to protect the shop workers and absolutely nothing is being done to protect teachers & TAs. Have been teaching just over 40 years but, until now, did not realise just how much the government hates teachers !

@Troppp this is why, what makes us special is that Boris does not want to protect us at all