Are our kids being thrown under the bus

[Pixxie7]

Chris Whitney has said that children are safe to go back to school because they are at low risk of complications from Covid.is this another case of politics being more important than lives?

I'm going to add to @noblegiraffe 's post by pointing out that

With lots of children being asymptomatic and the government refusing to test in schools unless you are symptomatic the results are always going to have a predetermined bias.

Sorry, have small children to.sort out as well as argue on the internet

WhyNotMe40
How do we solve staff to staff transmission with no extra funding or facilities?

In fact school funding has been increased this year I believe - (announced pre-Covid) and there should be a number of school activities cancelled this term because of the virus (also saving money) - not to mention savings while the schools were partially closed.

So from my brief review of the available data easily googlable

No masks + no ventilation + large class size in secondary = outbreaks

Masks + ventilation + smaller class sizes in secondary = echos local transmission rates

Primary... Probably ok as long as staff socially distance and wear masks

@Clavinova

WhyNotMe40 How do we solve staff to staff transmission with no extra funding or facilities?

In fact school funding has been increased this year I believe - (announced pre-Covid) and there should be a number of school activities cancelled this term because of the virus (also saving money) - not to mention savings while the schools were partially closed.

School funding per pupil is still lower due to increased numbers. The government had announced pay rises but not provided the extra money The government has called for increased cleaning but not provided the extra money Schools already are underfunded Savings while schools were closed to some pupils were wiped out by additional costs of providing workbooks, work packs, access arrangements, enhanced cleaning, handgel etc etc

WhyNotMe40
You linked to Israel - the teachers were blamed;

"Oz Arbel told Israel’s Army Radio that for a school project, his daughter’s classmates sat at a table and passed around a mobile phone with a teacher who was showing symptoms."

"One Gymnasia student, Ofek Amzaleg, told Kan public radio that a teacher who coughed in class and joked that he didn’t have coronavirus was among those who tested positive."

“They made a board with nails to hang their masks on, one on top of the other,”

"Teacher At J-m School At Center Of Outbreak Knew He Was Ill But Came To Work Anyway."

Of course teachers were blamed. They always are regardless. "My perfect littl Josh would never have lied"

Nevertheless, there were more student infections than staff

School funding per pupil is still lower due to increased numbers.

dfemedia.blog.gov.uk/2019/10/11/school-funding-allocations-2020-21/

No doubt some teachers were not blameless in some cases - but not all

I don't understand why teachers are different to anyone else working during coronavirus? Nurses and careworkers seem to have just got on with it, so I don't really understand why teachers are "special" and acting like they are the only job that is high-risk?

Funding per pupil lower than 2010 in real terms

@Troppp

I don't understand why teachers are different to anyone else working during coronavirus? Nurses and careworkers seem to have just got on with it, so I don't really understand why teachers are "special" and acting like they are the only job that is high-risk?

Why are teachers so special that they don't get the same protection as NHS/Careworkers/shopwokers etc. etc.

@Troppp

I don't understand why teachers are different to anyone else working during coronavirus? Nurses and careworkers seem to have just got on with it, so I don't really understand why teachers are "special" and acting like they are the only job that is high-risk?

Because as confirmed by a H&S expert on another thread, the conditions teachers are currently expected to work under would be illegal for anyone else. We just want the same "Covid secure" precautions as everyone else

And even if the increased funding per pupil brings it up a bit - it still doesn't cover the increased costs of a pandemic!

Right, I'm off to do real life stuff now.

Nevertheless, there were more student infections than staff

"Over 100 cases linked to Gymnasia Rehavia, with teacher ‘super-spreader’ blamed" - the teacher was found to have infected over 100 pupils and staff (he came to work knowing he was ill).

“The single super-spreader event in the Gymnasia just happened to be in a school,” said Dr Ran Balicer, an Israeli health care official and adviser to the prime minister on the pandemic. “It could have happened in any other setting.”

@Clavinova

Nevertheless, there were more student infections than staff

"Over 100 cases linked to Gymnasia Rehavia, with teacher ‘super-spreader’ blamed" - the teacher was found to have infected over 100 pupils and staff (he came to work knowing he was ill).

“The single super-spreader event in the Gymnasia just happened to be in a school,” said Dr Ran Balicer, an Israeli health care official and adviser to the prime minister on the pandemic. “It could have happened in any other setting.”

You've cherry picked there .

Check out this one:

And also note the screen shot where it highlights how close to England secondary schools it is with large class sizes. Although we don't have air conditioning.
www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.29.2001352#html_fulltext

You've cherry picked there.
Check out this one

That's the same school!

That report says nothing about it being due to a teacher super spreader. In fact it says there were 2 initial index cases epidemiologically unrelated.

But even if it is the same school, and one rogue teacher came in when ill (which may happen here in England - the pressure of presenteeism in schools is insane) - how do you mitigate against it?
Oh yes - masks, smaller class sizes, better ventilation...

@Clavinova

Nevertheless, there were more student infections than staff

"Over 100 cases linked to Gymnasia Rehavia, with teacher ‘super-spreader’ blamed" - the teacher was found to have infected over 100 pupils and staff (he came to work knowing he was ill).

“The single super-spreader event in the Gymnasia just happened to be in a school,” said Dr Ran Balicer, an Israeli health care official and adviser to the prime minister on the pandemic. “It could have happened in any other setting.”

Right, had a bit of time to Google. I found the article you quote. From the same article "Other outbreaks forced hundreds of schools to close. Across the country, tens of thousands of students and teachers were quarantined.".

www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/world/middleeast/coronavirus-israel-schools-reopen.html

You can't blame hundreds of school outbreaks on one teacher super spreader.
Also from the same article

"srael’s advice for other countries?

“They definitely should not do what we have done,” said Eli Waxman, a professor at the Weizmann Institute of Science and chairman of the team advising Israel’s National Security Council on the pandemic. “It was a major failure.”

The lesson, experts say, is that even communities that have gotten the spread of the virus under control need to take strict precautions when reopening schools. Smaller classes, mask wearing, keeping desks six feet apart and providing adequate ventilation, they say, are likely to be crucial until a vaccine is available."

Guess what we are about to do....?

But no, let's all do what @Clavinova does and blame the feckless teachers.

Nothing to do with the lack of mitigations

Clav studiously avoiding the question of whether our Chief Medical Officer was wrong to use flawed or inadequate data. He’s apparently the only person whose data she won’t pick at.

All I can say is that in my experience working in a regional children’s hospital, we have not had a single case of Covid in our children’s ICU. We test every child on admission and then weekly. On that basis, my children have attended school throughout lockdown and will be returning in September. I would like to see the evidence that shows that children are dying from Covid.

@FunWithFlagz

All I can say is that in my experience working in a regional children’s hospital, we have not had a single case of Covid in our children’s ICU. We test every child on admission and then weekly. On that basis, my children have attended school throughout lockdown and will be returning in September. I would like to see the evidence that shows that children are dying from Covid.

Oh FFS noone is saying kids are dying from Covid. We don't know the long term effects yet, but certainly in the short term they are largely asymptomatic. However teens certainly spread at the same rate as adults. Put 34 teens and one adult in a stuffy small classroom 5 times a day, in different groups and different teachers and see what happens to the transmission...