Media blackout on marches happening today

[orangesnapples]

Is it me or is it not very strange that 1000s of people currently marching though our major cities today and no media coverage?

They are marching for our children's rights, to awareness to trafficking etc

Does the lack of coverage just play into the hands of those that accuse the media of being part of the problem.

They are currently peacefully marching to bring awareness because there sadly is hardly any awareness of trafficking, most people have the completely strep typical idea of what trafficking is, that is all some world wide elite club.
But the sad truth it looks very different, and is probably happening in a home near you right now.

So why no coverage. My SM is flooded with 1000s I f people walking the streets of Liverpool, London etc.

I don't want to believe there is darkness in control of our media and what we see etc but honestly I can't think for the life of me why this isn't being covered.

It’s not fact based at all, it’s all crazy conspiracy theories and anti vaxers ect.

@boltzmannbrains

The thing about child satanic ritual abuse is that it really does not exist, or at least not in the way conspiracy theorists claim. By which I mean, large groups of powerful and influential people do not worship Satan and do not gather for elaborate rituals.

There are certainly some people in the world who are attracted to all that Aleister Crowley stuff and consider themselves Satan worshippers, but they tend to be more similar to Pagan or Wiccan types. People who are generally “alternative” who find comfort or empowerment in going into a forest and reciting a ritual they found online, or lighting candles on an altar. There’s nothing scary or dangerous about it. Since Satan obviously doesn’t exist. Most people who are interested in that kind of thing tend to be more outsider types; the idea that Hilary Clinton and the Queen are stripping naked to run around in a forest changing is just fantasy.

I suppose it’s possible that an individual sexual predator might decide to lie or to exploit Satanic imagery as a way of instilling fear into their victims to ensure their silence. It’s fairly common for pedophiles to lie and pretend to have links with law enforcement in order to convince their victims there’s no point in speaking up. So it’s not beyond the realm of possibility a pedophile might lie about this stuff for the same reason.

The real scandal with the SRA scandal was how many children were brainwashed and coerced into giving traumatic and emotionally damaging false testimony. The human memory is a very fragile thing; objective memory doesn’t even exist, and that’s why law enforcement and medical professionals have to be so careful in following proper procedure when it comes to interviewing victims or potential victims.

Actually it was here

Boltzmann, I think we’re going around in circles.

I was discussing QAnon and the danger of it on this thread before you popped up with your pagans are all lovely people relaxing with a candle in the wood post.

I have also posted about how the problem is that people have sacred cows. They get very upset if people point out that a particular group that they respect contain predators.

So people will go on about Savile, but not see the abuse at Kids’ Company until it is too late, because they don’t think it will be their preferred group that does it.

I also think that it is important that is is referred to ritual child sex abuse or similar.

It isn’t just there were some paedophiles and it had a ritualistic element as if the latter doesn’t matter.

The ritual element is a specific component of traumatising, terrorising and manipulating the victim.

Part of their recovery is going to be about understanding that specific trauma and it’s impact on survivors.

There was also the terrible case of Victoria Climbie - horribly abused because her ‘carers’ because she was possessed.

Victoria Climbie died because her great aunt and great aunt’s boyfriend were violent people who hated children and believed in extreme physical discipline, and the boyfriend appears to be a sadist who got off on inflicting physical abuse and torture on helpless children.

The “possession” element didn’t even come into play until months after the abuse started; the reason the great aunt stopped taking Victoria to hospitals and started taking her to churches (different churches) instead was because the hospitals were noticing signs of abuse and she was worried she would be caught. She invented the lie that Victoria’s injuries were caused by demons/self-inflicted as a result of “demonic possession” in order to protect herself, and deliberately exploited the church as a way to keep Victoria out of the mainstream system where the abuse would have been flagged.

This is why it’s crucial to look at the actual facts and examine how abusers make calculated decisions to exploit anything they have access to. Victoria’s abusers were not devoted Christians who genuinely believed she was possessed by a demon. They were calculating abusers who deliberately exploited the church to serve their own ends.

Again, I don’t really care if perpetrators genuinely believe in some supernatural nonsense or are simply using it as a tool. I only care about the impact it has on the victim.

The ritual element is a specific component of traumatising, terrorising and manipulating the victim.

That is literally my entire point and the point I’ve been making all along.

The conspiracy theorists are actually downplaying and dismissing real pedophilia. By pushing the idea that abusers only abuse because Satan compels them/because Satan will reward them for doing it, they are neatly side stepping the horrific reality of pedophila: that abusers abuse because it sexually arouses them.

Pedophiles don’t abuse for financial or career gain, or because someone else asks them to or forces them to. They do it because they get off on it.

That’s why these conspiracy theories are so dangerous. For one thing, “Satan made me do it!” averts personal responsibility. Second, pushing the lie that people only abuse children for financial/career gain is dangerous since it gives genuine pedophiles a get out of jail free card.

The same people pushing Pizzagate often defend actual accused/convicted sexual predators on the grounds, “they couldn’t possibly have assaulted that person because they had nothing to gain from it.” The idea that sexual abuse is motivated by personal gain is false and very dangerous.

To a predator, the assault itself IS the motivation.

@boltzmannbrains you're insistent on the the fact that this type of abuse can only carried out by abusers who believe in Satan or in your last example"be devout Christians".

That's simply not true that the abusers have to believe. The fact is that the type of abuse is carried out makes it faith based ritualistic abuse.

You might not care, Stripesgalore, but I think it’s essential to understand the mechanisms of abuse and how abusers operate.

If we don’t know how abusers exploit systems, we can’t stop them.

You can “I don’t care” all you like but the fact remains there is a big difference between someone accidentally killing a child out of deeply held but misguided religious belief (because this is something that can be addressed by education, and by authorities working with church leaders), and a calculating abuser deliberately exploiting a church in order to cover up abuse.

@boltzmannbrains you're insistent on the the fact that this type of abuse can only carried out by abusers who believe in Satan or in your last example"be devout Christians".

That just isn’t true at all, I have no idea where you’re getting that from.

I’ve actually said the exact opposite - that abusers pretend to have religious beliefs they don’t have as a cover for abuse.

You and “don’t care” stripes keep quoting my own points back at me in your insisting in promoting conspiracy theories involving widespread ritual abuse conducted by Satanists.

QAnon doesn’t claim that people only abuse children due to Satan telling them or for financial gain anyway. It is too convoluted a conspiracy theory to have such a simple statement. Many QAnon people don’t believe in God or Satan.

And again, it doesn’t matter whether or not people really believe it. People can enjoy rituals simply as a form of terrorising others.

It is the same with QAnon.

I don’t believe Q actually believes he is a government agent. He is just manipulating people.

I don’t think politicians who say they believe in Q really do. They just want votes from the followers.

But the movement is still radicalising people who do end up believing it, including children and vulnerable adults.

Boltzmann, if you agree on points with me then that’s a good way of us moving discussion forward, isn’t it? Rather than focussing on points of dispute.

Many Catholic priests will have genuinely held deep Christian faith and carried out horrific abuse. Many won’t have had any really faith.

It still leaves victims traumatised and often cut off from their own spirituality and culture as a way of healing.

QAnon doesn’t claim that people only abuse children due to Satan telling them or for financial gain anyway.

Plenty of them do, and that particular conspiracy theory has been used to discredit genuine abuse victims and defend accused abusers. Why are you defending it?

Many QAnon people don’t believe in God or Satan.

This thread is about the specific “World leaders worship Satan” conspiracy theory. What other people who broadly follow QAnon believe or don’t believe is completely irrelevant.

And again, it doesn’t matter whether or not people really believe it.

It absolutely does matter.

I am not defending QAnon!!!

People can believe in a Satan worshipping cabal without believing Satan actually exists!

Just as Atheists understand that the Catholic Church exists.

As I have said multiple times QAnon is a domestic terrorist threat in the US and followers have shot people and abducted children.

The Specific beliefs and methods of QAnon are important to understand because they explain why it is has gained such a mass following and has crossed over usual cultural boundaries into different groups.

In terms of the victims - what matters is the impact on them, not whether the perpetrator really believed in Q.

In terms of the victims - what matters is the impact on them, not whether the perpetrator really believed in Q.

If you want to protect victims and reduce the number of future victims you absolutely, absolutely have to understand how abusers operate and what methods they use to access and silence victims, how they hide in plain sight, how to recognise red flags, and how to intercede so that abusers can be stopped before they abuse.

Why would you focus on the victim and ignore the perpetrator, when focusing on the perpetrator means you lesson the chance of there being a victim/future victims in the first place?

[quote boltzmannbrains]**@boltzmannbrains you're insistent on the the fact that this type of abuse can only carried out by abusers who believe in Satan or in your last example"be devout Christians".

That just isn’t true at all, I have no idea where you’re getting that from.

I’ve actually said the exact opposite - that abusers pretend to have religious beliefs they don’t have as a cover for abuse.

You and “don’t care” stripes keep quoting my own points back at me in your insisting in promoting conspiracy theories involving widespread ritual abuse conducted by Satanists.[/quote]
I will repeat I am not spreading a conspiracy theory that widespread ritualistic abuse is being carried out by satanist.

I am merely pointing out that Satanic Ritual abuse or as someone else said Ritualistic Child Sex Abuse is a real phenomenon. It may not be widespread but it is real.

It is acknowledged as being real in the links already provided.

People can believe in a Satan worshipping cabal without believing Satan actually exists!

I agree. But lots of the conspiracy theorists DO believe that Satan exists, and religious belief/fundamentalism/Biblical literalism is a huge driving force behind those conspiracy theories, and explain why the political far right are in bed with conspiracy theorists, and explain how Israel/Jews/antisemitism is involved.

A lot of conspiracy theories are predicated on antisemetism. Antisemetic conspiracy theories are responsible for huge numbers of deaths. It’s extremely dangerous to ignore and downplay this.

Plus like I said, the people pushing the theory that Satanists abuse child for personal gain and not sexual pleasure are dangerous since that particular conspiracy theory has been actively used to defend pedophiles and discredit genuine victims.

‘Why would you focus on the victim and ignore the perpetrator, when focusing on the perpetrator means you lesson the chance of there being a victim/future victims in the first place?‘

I am not focussing just on the victim. As I just wrote.

‘The Specific beliefs and methods of QAnon are important to understand because they explain why it is has gained such a mass following and has crossed over usual cultural boundaries into different groups.’

We still seem to be going around in circles...

It is important to understand how different people are playing different roles in QAnon. Those who will abduct. Those who provide ‘safe houses’ where they will hide children once abducted. Those who may use violence and weapons agaibst professionals.

‘A lot of conspiracy theories are predicated on antisemetism. Antisemetic conspiracy theories are responsible for huge numbers of deaths. It’s extremely dangerous to ignore and downplay this.‘

Indeed, which is why I linked to news reports onthe neoNazi Satanic anti Semitic UK group 9angles.

‘Plus like I said, the people pushing the theory that Satanists abuse child for personal gain and not sexual pleasure are dangerous.’

Well the satanists here are fictional, as are the victims. QAnon claims are that the children are abused for sexual pleasure and then cannibalised for personal gain from the victim’s adrenochrome.

I think there is a need to move away from the idea that if the media isn't actively covering something loudly, it's either a cover up/blackout or not happening.

Having had my councillor spreading stories of 'cover ups' today which riled some people up, I'm mixed between wanting media to debunk him to have a source to point to and not wanting to give him more airtime & finding sources pointless as few seem to want to believe them anyways.

As others have said, it's so frustrating how serious issues that deserve serious consideration end up getting twisted into these things.

Yes. The politicians promoting these ideas are particularly responsible because they lend them credibility:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/24/mind-bogglingly-irresponsible-meet-the-republican-donors-helping-qanon-reach-congress

I think what this thread has highlighted for me is that the conspiracy theories are deflecting from the issues of child abuse as they seem so batshit folk will avoid the whole subject, even though it's an issue that could affect anyone of us or our family.

How do we effectively raise awareness based on facts and use practical ways of reducing the risk of children being trafficked and abused.

Take a look at Denise Welch on Twitter - she knows something is wrong - she’s not a flat earther

Child trafficking/grooming is vile and thousands of our Children have been abused by these Organisations. Yes the media purposely covers up Real News or fabricates it for their own purpose. Why? No idea but they should be ashamed and so should the Police/Social Services/Council's who have for years been aware of it but failed to take action. If a March was near me I would happily attend as I am getting so ashamed of this once wonderful Country!!