Wise mums please help with dilemma

[Gabbss]

So my dilemma is this:

DD offered excellent courses at her own schools sixth form.

DD offered ok courses at another sixth form, which aren’t as good as other sixth form when it comes to what she wants to do at university.

Now the problem is, her own school is quite a toxic environment filled with people she doesn’t feel comfortable with. I’ve said to her that it may be that new people join to which she said she saw there were only one or two different faces at the sixth form meetings.

Second place is in a college setting, even though it’d still be a-levels.

DD would like a fresh start so would be willing to settle for not so good a-level options there. All because she would like a new environment.

I really wish she would go to schools sixth form and see it as focusing on her goals and not the social aspect she’s dreading.

What would you do?

I think you've done well to listen to so many experiences and advice; it can be so hard to know how to best support our teens when they are making these decisions.

My DS2 really limited the Uni courses he could apply to when he decided not to do Maths at A-level, which he hadn't realised initially. I would definitely advise a quick look at normal entry requirements for her most likely uni course choices. Obviously those choices may change, but starting with something that keeps the maximum number of doors open is a good starting point.

Your daughter's mental health is far more important than which courses sh chooses, though. A setting she feels comfortable in will be far more likely to yield good exam results than where she is anxious or distressed.

I wish you both the very best as she starts further education.

(in the end it didn't matter because DS2 loved Psychology A-level so much he decided to do that instead, and starts his course in September)

Your daughter's mental health is far more important than which courses sh chooses, though

Obviously her DDs mental health is important but choosing the right courses is just as important. It isn't great for her mental health to discover she can't study the course she wants or go to the university she wants because she didn't make informed choices now or has compromised her choices just so she doesn't have to see her ex. Neither of the options in the OP sounded a good option for her DD.

I think you have to be very careful where Courses are billed as equivalent to A Level. Many good universities might say they accept them, but I would question if that's true in practice or if they just admit a token few.

I don't think I knew anyone with the exception of mature students at uni how didn't come in through A Levels.

I was also very young in the year going into 6 form. I was so envious of my friends who opted for collage at the time, but many of them weren't mature enough to manage their own learning at that age and gradually drifted off their courses.

This sounds a tough decision. 2 years is a really long time, particularly at 16! I think if she really hates going to school it would be tough to keep going. Is she really set on a particular career? I thought I knew what I wanted to do at 16 but changed my mind once I had been studying the a level subjects as they were different to GCSE and I couldn't see myself carrying on the one I thought I wanted to do. If she can do well rounded choices that give her options in future college might be better. However, it depends how hard a worker she is - you have to be much more independent at college, no one makes you go to lessons or forces you to do the work like at school so it might depend on her personality. Could she look at a different school? My brother hated school but really flourished when he changed schools for a levels.

You know what, it's also not a dead end at 18. If she does those subjects and by the end of the year or the end of the two years she's really regretting not doing maths and/or biology, it's very likely she will be able to sign up and complete those two courses perhaps alongside working part time. She will only be 17/18, when I did mine I had a false start and restarted A Levels at 18. I don't know if it's changed but I got mine funded because I was under 19 when I started the course.

Just read your further comments - she would definitely need biology and probably another science to study biology. Not sure about psychology or law but probably essay writing subjects like history or English. I would look at what unis require.

Worth bearing in mind that sciences become quite different the further you go with them - I remember my friend at uni saying biology was more like chemistry! Law is a tough uni course, you need to be really good at remembering lists and lists of cases.

She needs to think of her a levels as tools. Rightly or wrongly BTEC is not as well respected as an a level. To impress universities and future employers she will need some hard hitting a levels that will get her places. English Lit is fairly well respected but science or maths is a really good idea. Both of those would be great and then she could still do a fluffier subject.

Spoken not as an expert so feel free to disregard but I have had a very varied public sector career and completed two degrees (one psychology) and I've always found a science background very helpful.

Can't she change the subjects she's chosen at the college? Normally they get a place for the college but colleges expect that students will change their subjects after they've got results.

With regards to BTECs - these are much more coursework based (A levels now almost all final exam based). This may or may not suit your DD

However, unless aiming for the top of the top universities, a BTEC like the one proposed will carry just as much weight as A levels now

She could do an Access course instead of A Levels. Does that college (or any other local one with spaces) offer an appropriate one of those for what she wants to do at uni (check the unis she wants to apply to, as their requirements may differ)?

I would absolutely trust her and her decisions. These things very rarely end up being as be-all and end-all as either students or parents tend to imagine

Due to having parents who had little interest in my education, when I passed the 11-plus, I chose to go to the local comprehensive rather than the selective High School which offered me a place, because all my friends were going to the comprehensive. I still got the best A level results possible.

Your daughter is a lot older than 11. If I wish anything, it's that when I took my A levels, I'd pushed harder for a 'whim' subject that my teachers resisted me taking. It would have made no difference in the end.

Even if your daughter has a massively vocational career in mind, with specific A level requirements, she is still capable of making her own choices, because she will be aware of this.

There are so many routes to happiness. But none involve being unhappy in a toxic situation for 2 years.

Let her go where she’ll be happy because she won’t perform if she’s unhappy.

I had a similar dilemma where I was accepted to pretty much any 6th form or college in our county. I was desperate to get away from the bullies and bitches who had tormented me for years.
I eventually settled on staying at my 6th form, and keeping my head down, trying to stay out of the bullies way and getting my A levels so I could go to the uni of my choice. Admittedly it’s not for everyone to do that.
I also filled up my “frees” with an extra class and tutored younger students at school for free to stay away from the bullies. My boyfriend used to pick me up from the school gates in his car, so I didn’t have to face them on the bus coming home and he used to drop me off too.
I did everything I could to minimise my exposure to them and I still ended up with one as a cousin in law!

I think you need to focus on being very factual. So I would say things like, “I’m happy for you to go where ever you like but you do need to think ahead so if there is a university course you really want to do then we need to look on the University website and see what they will accept because I don’t want you being disappointed in two years time.”

This isn’t how it should be but BTEC course is looked down on compare to A-levels. It’s not how it should be but it is how it is.

People focus to much on career goals when really we should want our kids to grow in to happy people. My dd1 dropped out of her college placement as it was a very toxic environment and I was heart broken and really tried to talk her out of it, she stood firm and got herself an apprenticeship at a Barristers chambers, moved over to another place worked her socks off for a few years and was offered a role in their New York office. And bloody turned it down for a completely unrelated job in Dubai! But she’s really happy and loving life at 25

I should have trusted her capabilities to follow what she wanted.

Honestly I would avoid the 6th form college. Its likely to be less academic, photography as an a-level wont be valued unless shes applying for an arty course. I would fight tooth and nail to find another local school 6th form where she can do the subjects that are actually relevant to the degree course she's interested in.

I disagree about that assessment of colleges. It totally depends where OP is. Where I’m from everyone goes to college, there are few school 6th forms and it’s less academic to stay at school.

I let my daughter do what she wanted when it came to sixth form choices, there was a six form I would've preferred her to go to but figured it was her choice. As it was she hated her choice and dropped out after a year BUT it worked to her advantage in the long run. She started working in a special school aged 17 as a TA, eventually she went back to college part-time, got her grades and went on to Uni to study and is now a teacher of children with complex needs and challenging behaviour. If I had my time all over again I would make teh same decisions as, in the longer term, I think it taught her a lot and it gave her the determination to succeed.

Covid may still interrupt a lot of education.
I'd suggest keep her where the teaching staff all know her. In case next year's A levels have to be graded by teacher assessment of pupils again. Better done by the teachers at a school who know her well, than college teachers who haven't taught her for long and barely know her name.

Some of the pests may have left her school. And there's no guarantee of social harmony at an unknown college.

Have you considered investing in a private professional careers advisor? Light years ahead of schools careers advice.

if the current school has excellent teaching staff i would encourage her to stay, if not, run.

It sounds like the first thing you need to do with her is sit down and explore subject choices. Personally I'd rather approach this as if-you-could-choose-any, what would you do, and only after that discussion then explore ok, to do these choices (perhaps with an either/or) where can you go? I also found myself wondering if you had anywhere locally that offers IB. With a list of subjects she would like to do, examine university course requirements to see what combinations make more sense than others.

I agree with those who've mentioned that she may be able to avoid the problem students in 6th form. When she's clarified what subjects she really wants to do, consider if the ex-boyfriend is likely to be doing any of those subjects. If not, then avoiding him will be straightforward I think. My daughter hardly sees anyone in her year who isn't doing her subjects.

I hope she comes out with a happy set of choices in the end. It's not easy!

I'm slightly dreading next summer term when I guess my youngest will need to be sorting out his A level choices - and that's with no likelihood of considering a change of school.

Gosh what a dilemma.

Personally I would be very, very reluctant to let my child swap to completely different (picked on a whim) A levels that could well also close off her preferred uni courses, simply to escape an ex and other unpleasant peers.

However, it would depend on how unhappy she had been and whether I thought she could continue at school and avoid the unpleasant people. Are they actively bullying her, or does she just not like them? Will they leave her alone if she ignores them? Would they be in the same classes as her?

Also - might some of them be ok by 6th form (I remember a lot of my cohort grew up and changed for the better between 15-16 and 16-17).

I would probably encourage her to take the “treat it like a job” approach - in for lessons, out again. Social life can come from hobbies or part time job plus any school friends she does still get on with. However my view would change if she was actively being bullied and especially if any of the bullies would be in her classes.

I would agree with her going to college but not if it means she can't do the A levels she wants or needs for university.
Mental health is very important but how will she feel in 2 years time if she's done the "wrong 'A levels and so can't get on the course she wants?