Wise mums please help with dilemma

[Gabbss]

So my dilemma is this:

DD offered excellent courses at her own schools sixth form.

DD offered ok courses at another sixth form, which aren’t as good as other sixth form when it comes to what she wants to do at university.

Now the problem is, her own school is quite a toxic environment filled with people she doesn’t feel comfortable with. I’ve said to her that it may be that new people join to which she said she saw there were only one or two different faces at the sixth form meetings.

Second place is in a college setting, even though it’d still be a-levels.

DD would like a fresh start so would be willing to settle for not so good a-level options there. All because she would like a new environment.

I really wish she would go to schools sixth form and see it as focusing on her goals and not the social aspect she’s dreading.

What would you do?

We’ve just applied to two new places, one of them has got back that they’re full. I’ll keep trying!

What about a sixth form at another school,. Are they the only options full stop? I would look for another school with the right a-levels.

She’s definitely not saying what I want to hear and is going against what I say.

She isn’t thinking ahead she’s thinking of the immediate future of a fresh start at the expense of appropriate courses. What a mess.

I’ve been frantically looking for other sixth forms which are mainly full, she may have to travel out a bit.

@Gabbss

She would either like to do Law, Psychology, Biology at Uni/further studies

I’d be amazed if any of those courses accept photography as a viable a level. And she will almost certainly need to do biology a level if she wants to do a biology degree (and if not then definitely other sciences).

Having experienced a toxic environment at that age - I would always always go for feeling comfortable. The work I have had to do on my confidence ..,You can trust your daughter to find her way. The better course may not be for the best.

I read a beautiful article a little while ago about encouraging young people to study s wide variety of subjects before they settle into the one they do at university (and even if m them if they have electives encourage them to do a wide variety). It was based on the notion that who the hell actually knows what they want to do for the rest of their life at 16 or 17 any way? Especially without having done a little bit of study in a lot of different subjects. What she wants to do in a year or two's time could change dramatically anyway. I thought that sounded like very sensible real advice, so from that perspective doing the other courses would suit, especially as your say their results would get her into plan A anyway.

Is the ex and are the batch girls going to be studying her subjects? Because I really didn't see much of people who I want studying with at A level, especially if not put into a form with them (which I wonder if the head of 6th form would facilitate of you asked?).

Having said that i think this is the first real decision of her life that should be hers. A school where you're miserable is no good for mental health which even if "only" low level is a) miserable and b) definitely going to have an impact on grades. Also if she starts, can't stand it and switches anyway she's going to start from behind. If she moves then regrets it, that's a money you can't buy lesson in not being pushed around by bullies. If she moves and loves it she'll be glad she listened to her instincts.

Can she not call the 6th form college where she has a place and see if there would be any flexibility to change the a levels to something which would be a better fit? Sounds like the college would be the best fit life-wise so its just the courses which are the issue. . .

I’m going to leave the decision to her and keep trying in the meantime for another sixth form. I’ll also let her know the pros and fine of each.

Really appreciate all of the advice and can’t thank you all enough.

@Gabbss

She would either like to do Law, Psychology, Biology at Uni/further studies

She doesn’t need any particular A levels to do law or psychology.

@formyboys

I was in a very similar situ many years ago and I wish to god I had stuck with what I knew. Changing schools was great socially but I completely tanked academically. It was a much bigger year and I was used to a smaller environment - I just flew under the radar and scraped through. It wasn't good and I didn't anticipate how settling in would take so long. That said maybe it was just me. Two years isn't that long in the scheme of things and it may give her more options to fly away in the medium term.

Whereas when I finally went to college I was happier in every way.

As far as I know, she can get into Law or Psychology at university with the A levels she’s applied for at college. Biology at university would require Biology at A level. So her idea is perfectly reasonable to me - and also she’s likely to get better grades if she’s less anxious about the environment.

She’s at an age where she should make her own decisions about what and where to study, and you should respect her decisions and her reasons. I don’t mean to be harsh, but it’s her life and if this decision isn’t the best, at least it won’t be disastrous. There are so many worse decisions a teenager can make!

I think the actual college environment as opposed to a school gives students a great start when entering University life. The approach to learning etc is so different and I felt better prepared for University after attending an independent college than friends who stayed on at sixth form at our old school. Your DD will blossom and mature and I'd worry being in an environment she doesn't like and has anxieties about will hold her back on her learning journey.
It's a time of excitement and new beginnings and I'd want her to be looking forward to these new beginnings, meeting new people and forming new relationships.
The actual A-levels would be secondary to me and tbh in a lot of circumstances the actual subject isn't so important.
I also think she's more likely to get good A-levels with a new start and the added confidence and maturity that this will bring.

I think she needs another school sixth form. I would be really concerned about a college that didn't offer science. There is quite a bit of maths and stats in a Psychology degree and it is a science, so two years without contact with science isn't great.

She doesn’t need any particular A levels to do law or psychology

She might not need any particular A levels but that doesn’t mean the admissions team consider all A level subjects to be equal.

I made the decision to leave my school sixth form to go to college mainly because my close friends were and I wanted to experience somewhere new.
I thought it would be a great opportunity, fresh start, I could make loads of friends.
I didn't. It was so big, I made aquaintances and temporary friends but no friendships like I'd had at school. I had tooanu different class groups and not enough consistency to really build relationships. My friends from school were more successful at making new connections so I was quite lonely. I did ok academically but that mainly came from me rather than anything the college did.
It wasn't the best or right decision for me. My friends who stayed at sixth form had a great time, totally different to how the last five years have been, lovely close friendships, small group teaching, more mature atmosphere, much less crappy teenage behaviour, the cliques broke down and it was a supportive and fun environment. Most of them are still friends now where I don't keep in touch with my college friends at all.
I interestingly made a decision to move jobs to get away from an ex as an adult. It was also the wrong decision. Really really was.
I tend to think new opportunities are positive and just more chances to make friends and have new experiences. I've learnt to value what you have, especially if you are sensitive or anxious. It actually sounds like sixth form would suit your daughter more and I think it is a mistake to choose less appropriate a levels and think 'it will all be ok'.
Nope. The correct a levels for what you want to do are what you hang your hat on and everything else goes from there. The education is the starting point and then there are strategies/decisions to make regarding how to make the best of or ameliorate any downsides that option brings.
Some toxic girls and ex are not a reason to sidestep out of an education that will open the doors you want.
Uni is the real time of freedom and your daughter deserves to have the best chance of doing what she wants where she wants in two years time.
Sixth form won't be like 2 more years of the same, it will be different and she can connect with her friends who have left to expand her social circle. She will still be at home and all the support that brings.
I'd be worried in your position if my daughter was considering leaving.
I've worked a job too long that ended in me having a breakdown, it led to hard career and life changes. I'm the last person to suggest people need to suffer through something just because they've committed, or that mental health isn't important, but this just sounds all types of wrong for me. Alarm bells. It's not the right time to opt out of the optimum education for her and the reasons to do so just don't seem strong enough and the possibilities of advantages at the college also aren't guaranteed (especially for a sensitive, anxious soul) and don't seem strong enough.
Just my opinion, I really feel for you, good luck.

In Scotland she wouldn’t have had a choice as you stay until 6th year in school, you can go to college but no separate 6th form. She needs to narrow down exactly what it is she wants to do and choose her subjects that way or do more a levels later to get what she wants if she chooses to go down the college route. Loads of people, myself included didn’t have the grades/subjects for uni so did a college course instead or highers/a levels in college for a particular course. It’s hard if she’s unhappy where she is, hopefully another 6th form will have space but it’s cutting it fine. Good luck

I would encourage her to choose the better six form. Running away from people who are not nice and sacrificing her best interests will give a dangerous precedent for future life choices

If she wants to do biology, she will almost definitely need chemistry a-level, and I doubt very much photography will be taken seriously for any of those subjects. Being happy is really important, but 2 years is a long time to spend studying useless subjects, so she should really check out the entry requirements for the courses she’s interested in. A mix of humanities / sciences is not necessarily a bad thing - what’s more important is getting the best grades she can, and not restricting herself by missing partner subjects (eg physics needs maths, biology needs chemistry)

Is there not another option? My dd switched college at this stage when she got her GCSEs. Being happy is so important

OP some sixth forms are much bigger in year size than years 11/10 so has she thought of that? More of a dilution effect to avoid those she does not want to mix with...FWIW my daughter doing Law at uni and took Physics, Maths and Psychology - they actually preferred it that she hadn't done Law A level

Minicat - from ucas "While you don’t need to have all three sciences at A level for a psychology degree, most universities prefer at least one out of chemistry, physics, biology, or maths.
Overall, a combination of good, academic A level subjects is required".
Law is very similar.

So she does need three academic a levels which photography is not. The ucas forms then go on to list other academic subjects that would be useful -pretty much everything except foreign languages are listed So Spanish would be negligible too.

Even if she didn't need specific subjects psychology and law are very very popular options with loads of applicants so realistically if you have two candidates with the same grades most admissions tutors would choose the one with biology, maths and statistics for a psychology degree compared to English, Spanish and photography!!!

I would be very surprised if a decent science psychology degree didn't require a science A-level. Even if it's not stated on the prospectus, admissions would favour high science A-level grades.

I live in the middle of nowhere and I can name about 5-6 sixth form centres that kids round here go to. Surely there are more options?

Thank you all, this is making for such interesting reading and helping so much to be balanced. I really appreciate the time and personal experiences.

DD has been offered to do an Extended BTEC Applied Science at another good local sixth form - equivalent of three A levels at the end. She likes the idea.

This is in danger of being a grab anything decision. She should not go to 6 Form under pressure, yours or even her own.
Is it possible for her to miss this year and apply for more appropriate courses next? Spend time thinking and photography.
Is it possible to do Statistics at a lower (GCSE) level? For psychology it is is really necessary to be comfortable with stats in many aspects of the work.
For Law she needs ability to analyse and write. Two lawyers I know did religious studies.