Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

This government don’t give a shit about schools or your kids

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 20/08/2020 19:11

AIBU to think that the government have fucked up literally everything to do with schools and education this year?

Evidence:

Chaotic school closures and keyworker provision (couldn’t decide what a keyworker was until the very last minute)

Forgot that kids on free school meals would go hungry so heads had to go round delivering sandwiches while the DfE put together an utterly shambolic voucher system that crashed and was pretty unusable.

Issued no guidelines for minimum education requirements during lockdown leading to vastly different provision between schools. Even Ofsted said they couldn’t judge schools on lockdown provision as there were no standards to judge them against.

Had to be shamed into u-turning on their insistence that free school meal children should go hungry during the holidays by a celebrity footballer (well done Marcus Rashford you absolute star)

Fed stories to friendly newspapers about schools re-opening in May to judge public reaction, leading to anxiety and uncertainty among parents and school staff

Announced that primary schools would open to all pupils before the summer holidays, an announcement that had surely not been run past anyone who worked in schools given that under the government’s own guidelines for schools for bubbles of 15 and no rotas, this would require double the classrooms and double the teachers available. Then backtracked on this a few weeks later (getting the friendly press to blame the unions) again creating uncertainty, anxiety and disappointment for parents and pupils.

Ignored education select committee questions about Ofqual’s algorithm when they raised issues in July

Lied and said they didn’t have early access to the data from Ofqual’s algorithm

When Scotland u-turned on their use of an algorithm, instead of making a considered response, came out with the bizarre notion that kids could use their mock grades - a suggestion that had obviously never been put past anyone who worked in schools. Again.

Took 5 days to realise that their mock suggestion created more problems than it solved, then u-turned on awarding CAGs creating problems for Y12 next year.

Fed stories to the friendly press that the unions are blocking the re-opening of schools in September so if it goes tits-up, they can blame them again (unions are asking for a ‘plan B’ in the case of local lockdowns, and for working conditions comparable to those of all other workers, no strike action has been proposed or balloted for so they couldn’t block re-opening even if they wanted to)

Blamed Ofqual for the algorithm they were told to create (prioritising statistics over teacher assessment)

Branded a teacher payrise that was agreed back in January a ‘reward for work during lockdown’, knowing this was incorrect, and deliberately fuelling outrage that they themselves had caused by having no minimum requirements for education in lockdown leading to vastly different provision.

Not funding this payrise so teachers probably won’t get it as otherwise it will lead to redundancies for other staff members due to having to fund it from already dire staffing budgets.

Issued guidelines that said that schools should reopen with increased cleaning schedules, increased handwashing, hand sanitising but providing no extra funding for this.

Instructed heads not to take any measures that would improve safety but would require more space (e.g. use of village halls) or not have pupils in full time (rotas, staggered timetables).

Didn’t realise that kids wouldn’t be able to get to school on public transport under current social distancing requirements as there aren’t enough buses until three weeks before schools reopened, and decided to throw £40 million to LAs to sort this (what? buy more buses?) so that they could blame the LAs when it inevitably goes wrong and kids can’t get to school.

And these are the people currently running a campaign to convince parents that they are capable of re-opening schools safely.

YABU: I have full confidence in the government and am perfectly happy with how things have gone so far

YANBU: It is mind-boggling how incompetent they have been, and how little thought they have given to the education of the nation’s children.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
cantkeepawayforever · 21/08/2020 20:58

"However I'm just a pandemic denier' apparently! So don't mind me"

No, I have not said this. You said that unions do not put children's needs first and don't want schools open.

However, as I know you agree, that's not the case. The unions and you want exactly the same thing - schools back as consistently as possible, which means that they must be Covid-safe in order to prevent unnecessary closures due to staff illness or in-school outbreaks. You agree on that.

The ONLY argument you have with unions - and the teachers that they represent - is that while in theory you want schools to be open and safe, you don't find the only effective ways to do this acceptable. That isn't the unions' fault.

itsgettingweird · 21/08/2020 21:02

Well we aren't under a labour government.

The current people we have in sorry government have not a clue about state schools and don't plan ahead and think their above asking the people in the know.

Others in charge may have done better.

In fact I'm sure there were other Tories who would have been less of a clusterfuck than this lot. Many of them have also been critics.

Those in charge are because they are pro Brexit. Not because they are best at their jobs.

askmehowiknow · 21/08/2020 21:02

@cantkeepawayforever

"However I'm just a pandemic denier' apparently! So don't mind me"

No, I have not said this. You said that unions do not put children's needs first and don't want schools open.

However, as I know you agree, that's not the case. The unions and you want exactly the same thing - schools back as consistently as possible, which means that they must be Covid-safe in order to prevent unnecessary closures due to staff illness or in-school outbreaks. You agree on that.

The ONLY argument you have with unions - and the teachers that they represent - is that while in theory you want schools to be open and safe, you don't find the only effective ways to do this acceptable. That isn't the unions' fault.

@noblegiraffe has accused me of being a pandemic denier. Several times. Despite the fact I worked on a covid ward. She also accused other NHS employees of this.

Her experience of the pandemic assume not so frontline as mine though Grin

FrippEnos · 21/08/2020 21:06

KenDodd

I'm not, I've always been a floating voter (pretty much, except haven't voted Labour since, and because of, the Iraq war). What makes you think I am intractable, is it because I think this government are shit based on all the evidence of their shitness?

Your views on those that voted for Brexit are intractable.
We all have views that we don't change.
You have them
I have them
And Clav has them.

Look at askmehowiknow and see how if the face of evidence she has not changed her views at all.

Some people voted Brexit but are against what is happening to schools
Some people voted labour and are against what is happening in schools.

The same I suspect with UKIP, libdem etc.

What we need to be doing is joining together for a cause whist recognising that we may disagree on other things.

Finding a middle ground does not mean that you are tied to one group.

askmehowiknow · 21/08/2020 21:10

@FrippEnos

KenDodd

I'm not, I've always been a floating voter (pretty much, except haven't voted Labour since, and because of, the Iraq war). What makes you think I am intractable, is it because I think this government are shit based on all the evidence of their shitness?

Your views on those that voted for Brexit are intractable.
We all have views that we don't change.
You have them
I have them
And Clav has them.

Look at askmehowiknow and see how if the face of evidence she has not changed her views at all.

Some people voted Brexit but are against what is happening to schools
Some people voted labour and are against what is happening in schools.

The same I suspect with UKIP, libdem etc.

What we need to be doing is joining together for a cause whist recognising that we may disagree on other things.

Finding a middle ground does not mean that you are tied to one group.

Exactly. The evidence points to schools reopening being safe I've not changed my view at all Smile
CallmeAngelina · 21/08/2020 21:13

No, the "evidence" does not point to schools reopening being safe!

ChavvySexPond · 21/08/2020 21:14

BIG YANBU here. HUGE.

Appuskidu · 21/08/2020 21:16

Exactly. The evidence points to schools reopening being safe I've not changed my view at all smile

No, the evidence really doesn’t.

FrippEnos · 21/08/2020 21:17

askmehowiknow

Exactly. The evidence points to schools reopening being safe I've not changed my view at all

Point proven, intractable.
Ignores the word suggests and the evidence that teenagers spread the virus at the same rate as adults. etc. etc.

askmehowiknow · 21/08/2020 21:17

@Appuskidu

Exactly. The evidence points to schools reopening being safe I've not changed my view at all smile

No, the evidence really doesn’t.

It really really does. Sorry
cantkeepawayforever · 21/08/2020 21:18

The evidence points to schools reopening being safe I've not changed my view at all

I agree with the second part of that statement. I also agree that a majority of people within schools will not become seriously ill through schools being open. However there is obviously a risk of infection within schools and across the wider community through in-school transmission.

So it depends what you define as 'safe'. You state that you want all children to have equal access to education, but that you want no effective safety measures to be in place, which means that you feel there is an 'acceptable level of risk' that you are prepared to take - both a risk that schools will re-close for some pupils, and that some vulnerable children and adults will be harmed. It's 'safer' than other situations may be - for example it is 'safer' than it was in the middle of a polio outbreak pre-vaccine - but it is not 'safe'.

askmehowiknow · 21/08/2020 21:20

@FrippEnos

askmehowiknow

Exactly. The evidence points to schools reopening being safe I've not changed my view at all

Point proven, intractable.
Ignores the word suggests and the evidence that teenagers spread the virus at the same rate as adults. etc. etc.

I can't help but saying. What?!

As for teenagers. Yes they will spread the virus. But way more in parties/living together/being ahem intimate lol

Schools of course. But less than uni

itsgettingweird · 21/08/2020 21:20

The point is what Noble wrote (her 31 point essay!) is the truth. There's no getting away from that whoever you support and what side of the coin you flip.

Facts don't change because you like something or not.

What causes more issues and prevents change for the better is when people try and play semantics and change facts because it doesn't sit with their political beliefs.

Even my 16yo ds asked me why you have to wear a mask on a bus, in shops, queues etc from age 11 when you don't have to in school.
He said are we following selective science Grin.

This from the lad who left school this year (he's just finished yr 11) and doesn't wear a mask because of his autism and it gave him panic attacks - so it's not even relevant to him!

rwalker · 21/08/2020 21:20

I think people need to be more realistic with what possible .half don't want the schools open for risk of transmission and half want there kids in school being educated .
It's an impossible situation which ever way the turn they are doomed

askmehowiknow · 21/08/2020 21:24

@cantkeepawayforever

The evidence points to schools reopening being safe I've not changed my view at all

I agree with the second part of that statement. I also agree that a majority of people within schools will not become seriously ill through schools being open. However there is obviously a risk of infection within schools and across the wider community through in-school transmission.

So it depends what you define as 'safe'. You state that you want all children to have equal access to education, but that you want no effective safety measures to be in place, which means that you feel there is an 'acceptable level of risk' that you are prepared to take - both a risk that schools will re-close for some pupils, and that some vulnerable children and adults will be harmed. It's 'safer' than other situations may be - for example it is 'safer' than it was in the middle of a polio outbreak pre-vaccine - but it is not 'safe'.

Exactly. An acceptable level of risk. This has always been the case. For anything in life.

If people don't like this level of risk. It is their responsibility to make decisions on that. But the thousands of kids getting their exam results that will impact the rest of their lives. Let's not put that responsibility on them aye

cantkeepawayforever · 21/08/2020 21:24

Schools of course.

So you accept that teenagers will infect others in schools - less efficiently than they might in other circumstances, but to larger numbers.

However, as i understand it, this comes within your definition of 'safe' - it is safe for teenagers to infect one another in schools?

I don't necessarily think you are intractable. i just think you have a different definition of 'safe', in the same way as a Formula 1 driver possibly has a different definition from me of what 'driving fast' means.

Bupkis · 21/08/2020 21:26

half don't want the schools open for risk of transmission

No...this is not what people are saying.

For me, personally, I would like the opportunity to keep ds home, without the threat of fines, consider he has been shielding until now.

askmehowiknow · 21/08/2020 21:26

@cantkeepawayforever

Schools of course.

So you accept that teenagers will infect others in schools - less efficiently than they might in other circumstances, but to larger numbers.

However, as i understand it, this comes within your definition of 'safe' - it is safe for teenagers to infect one another in schools?

I don't necessarily think you are intractable. i just think you have a different definition of 'safe', in the same way as a Formula 1 driver possibly has a different definition from me of what 'driving fast' means.

Yes

If you think there will be zero transmission in schools you are misguided. Sorry.

itsgettingweird · 21/08/2020 21:28

Noble piggy etc as secondary school teachers I have to ask this - just came to mind!

Have you got to adjust things like detention and isolation etc due to Covid?

I can just imagine the chaos if some kids realise there's no recourse for their behaviour.

askmehowiknow · 21/08/2020 21:29

@Bupkis

half don't want the schools open for risk of transmission

No...this is not what people are saying.

For me, personally, I would like the opportunity to keep ds home, without the threat of fines, consider he has been shielding until now.

Talk to your school. Then escalate. You'll get there.

Even though shielded children are low risk. I completely understand. I reckon if me I'd quit my job and home school but obviously not always possible and depends on individual risk.

cantkeepawayforever · 21/08/2020 21:30

OK, so you are saying that by 'safe', you mean 'a level of risk acceptable to you personally?

So for you, the additional cases, hospitalisations (and deaths) of a few - both in schools and as a result of school-based transmission out into vulnerable families - is an acceptable risk in order for the many to have in-school education without risk mitigation for much of the time (allowingfor closures due to outbreaks and local lockdowns)?

And the extra benefit for the many of a 'no effective risk mitigation' approach is worth the extra costs in terms of illness for the few, compared with taking away that extra benefit but lowering the numbers affected by illness?

Again, as I say, not what many people consider 'safe', but a position. Would your personal position be the same if you were personally medically vulnerable, or lived with someone highly medically vulnerable or very old?

cantkeepawayforever · 21/08/2020 21:32

Sorry, cross-posted - what you are saying in the posts above mine is that your personal position would be different if you lived with someone highly medically vulnerable, because then the risk / reward balance would be different.

StaffAssociationRepresentative · 21/08/2020 21:33

I am hoping that @noblegiraffe will take over from the idiot know as Big Gav.

Between him, the DfE, and OFQUAL they couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery even if they were given the keys and everything laid out for them.

noblegiraffe · 21/08/2020 21:33

cant you are giving her my thread!

OP posts:
askmehowiknow · 21/08/2020 21:34

@cantkeepawayforever

OK, so you are saying that by 'safe', you mean 'a level of risk acceptable to you personally?

So for you, the additional cases, hospitalisations (and deaths) of a few - both in schools and as a result of school-based transmission out into vulnerable families - is an acceptable risk in order for the many to have in-school education without risk mitigation for much of the time (allowingfor closures due to outbreaks and local lockdowns)?

And the extra benefit for the many of a 'no effective risk mitigation' approach is worth the extra costs in terms of illness for the few, compared with taking away that extra benefit but lowering the numbers affected by illness?

Again, as I say, not what many people consider 'safe', but a position. Would your personal position be the same if you were personally medically vulnerable, or lived with someone highly medically vulnerable or very old?

No such thing as safe. Sadly.

However the risk of covid to kids less than many other infections

Should we worry about schools reopening spreading to rest of community though. There is that argument but imo there's no doubt kids education should be a priority

Swipe left for the next trending thread