To ask the mask police to please PLEASE stop

[PennyDreadfuI]

Another mask thread but I'm not going to apologise because I'm absolutely at the end of my tether with this sort of thing.

I can't wear a mask because I have trigeminal neuralgia and I've lost count of the stares, comments and filthy looks I've had (and yes, I do wear a lanyard, even though I'm not keen on advertising the fact that I have a hidden health condition). I've heard of people not being allowed on buses, being challenged by staff to explain their reason for exemption and being told they can't enter shops despite being exempt (none of which is legal). I've been told I should wear a visor (I can't, and they're next to useless anyway - Scotland have just banned them unless they're worn with a mask), that I should just stay at home (I can't and neither do government guidelines suggest I should), that I shouldn't use buses (I don't drive and can't walk long distances or cycle because I have inflammatory arthritis) and that I'm selfish (I'm not - if I could wear a mask, I would).

I understand this is a contentious issue but please, can people just think for a minute before they judge or comment? Exemptions are there for a reason - those who are sticklers for The Rules should surely accept and respect this one, too. It's awful that people are too scared to go out for fear of what's essentially discrimination.

The pandemic is bad enough by itself - let's not lose our sense of empathy and humanity, too.

[quote Looking4wards]@MMN123
It’s your responsibility to be alert to your proximity to others even when you are standing still.

Stay 2m away.

Not an issue if they aren’t wearing a mask.

Many folk can’t wear masks so assume you will encounter unmasked people if you go into a shop.

Then decide if you want to enter and be vigilant or not enter.

You're assuming they were in the shop first, that's not always the case. If I'm mid-way through a transaction am i suppose to leave just because someone else entered without a mask and decided not to observe the distancing rules?
I'm also having issue on public transport. If I get off everytime someone without a mask stands too close I'll never get to my destination.
So what's the solution for me? Am I suppose to stay at home then?[/quote]
If people move too close, step away. If you can’t, then ask them to step away. Many just haven’t realised they are too close.

@EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire

I actually think the store went above and beyond to help her. Offering to let her come in outside of opening times or assistance outside? These are exactly the kind of 'reasonable adjustments' that can be made to ensure people with disabilities have access to all the services they want and also keep other shoppers safe. I'm in the US so unsure if the laws are different in the UK. But for example, our stores can actually deny entry to someone not wearing a mask if they offer an alternative e.g. Free pickup or delivery. It's a reasonable adjustment.

It's not true that "many folk can't wear a mask". There are a very small number of people who can't. If only people who can but don't want to/ need to acclimate to them at home would wear them and stop the "it's nobody else's business" foot stamping, those who can't wear them would be left in peace.

I work with vulnerable people who are all exempt technically, but only ten percent of them genuinely can't wear a mask. Luckily so few people avoid mask wearing in our area that the very few who can't wear masks aren't challenged - but I've noticed the hostile glances and needed to produce evidence of exception for a client in an area where more people were trying to avoid mask wearing (and people behind us argued with the security guard about being hot!).

And I was suggesting to always assume there will be others in the shop with no mask. Before you. After you. With you. Your job is to keep 2m from them.

My teacher at school told us to assume when walking down country lanes that the cars were trying to hit us. And our job was to not let them by getting right up to the hedge when we heard them coming and not wait for them to avoid us! Good principle for supermarkets. Assume everyone is trying to give you covid. Your job is to keep yourself 2m away as they come at you from all directions, while not forgetting you need eggs!

[quote MsMD]@EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire

I actually think the store went above and beyond to help her. Offering to let her come in outside of opening times or assistance outside? These are exactly the kind of 'reasonable adjustments' that can be made to ensure people with disabilities have access to all the services they want and also keep other shoppers safe. I'm in the US so unsure if the laws are different in the UK. But for example, our stores can actually deny entry to someone not wearing a mask if they offer an alternative e.g. Free pickup or delivery. It's a reasonable adjustment.[/quote]
Okay.

Sorry.

@Looking4wards you're correct and I apologise, the 'pathetic' comment was uncalled for.

This whole topic, on top of the rest of the lockdown policing, has pushed me to my limits. The number of people who think everyone else should divulge their own business whilst being either unqualified to assess the impact or uncaring of the harm it causes makes me angry and upset in equal measure. None of that is your fault - your post just got to me. I hope for all our sakes this ends sooner rather than later.

TBH now, if someone cannot wear a mask, why go out and spread it around?

Spread what around? Hardly anyone has it now - those that do are mostly, young, healthy and unlikely to be doing the weekly shop.

@NoMoreFlowers

If you were buying something and some random said to you 'Prove to me you can afford that' how would you feel? So why should you have the right to ask them to prove anything.

@EveryDayIsADuvetDay
another magic person that KNOWS how many people are just pretending.

@ScubaSteven So definitely NOT right for a random stranger to challenge

@ItsIslandTime Wed 19-Aug-20 22:07:22
Sorry if this has already been suggested but what about wearing one of those plastic shields instead. I know you don’t have to but if it saves you from all the ‘stares’ it might be worth it.

even less point than a mask - evidence it increases risk

@TheFuckingDogs I've learned lots from reading too.

@Spookathon I totally agree - and what is worse they only did it (I think) because BoJo is a populist and he thought, because of the vocal minority, it is what we wanted.

@MMN123
Those who are concerned will shop in the places they feel take it seriously. Other places will lose customers or their staff will end up off sick. Market forces will win out.

Market forces will definitely win out. - Mostly by sensible people taking sensible precautions getting more custom and Prats trying to enforce unenforceable, unworkable and unreasonable rules will go out of business

@year5teacher Wed 19-Aug-20 22:33:49
I think it can occasionally be obvious if people don’t have a reason not to be wearing a mask, e.g group of five teenage girls together all not wearing them, it’s not that likely they ALL have hidden conditions - Of course, they could, but you know!

But these aren't the people being challenged - because they will retaliate. People get wound up by these kids and then challenge the little old lady or the young woman with children.

@AmICrazyorWhat2 Wed 19-Aug-20 22:34:03

All I’m saying is that everyone has to try and protect others ( and themselves) from catching COVID-19 or we’ll end up back in lockdown. Masks, social distancing, etc. are some of tools being used worldwide. Some people are exempt from wearing a mask, so social distancing as much as possible is their only option, right? Not sure why you’d consider that bullying, it’s a fact.

We reduced cases and got out of lockdown before anyone had to wear masks. No one is arguing against distancing. Random people deciding to challenge strangers IS BULLYING and against guidelines.
AND all of it is opinion NOT F A C T

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

It's not true that "many folk can't wear a mask". There are a very small number of people who can't. If only people who can but don't want to/ need to acclimate to them at home would wear them and stop the "it's nobody else's business" foot stamping, those who can't wear them would be left in peace.

I work with vulnerable people who are all exempt technically, but only ten percent of them genuinely can't wear a mask. Luckily so few people avoid mask wearing in our area that the very few who can't wear masks aren't challenged - but I've noticed the hostile glances and needed to produce evidence of exception for a client in an area where more people were trying to avoid mask wearing (and people behind us argued with the security guard about being hot!).

It is true that many can’t.

A very small proportion of the population can’t. But that is still many people. Lots of them might happen to live near you by chance alone.

@EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire. I assumed that Apple was trying to protect their employees from risk of infection? Those Apple repair appointments can go on for a while as they have to talk to the customer about problems with their device- I suppose the customer could put the device on the counter and step 2m away to talk. But it’s still more of a consultation than a quick trip to the shop.

If people move too close, step away. If you can’t, then ask them to step away. Many just haven’t realised they are too close.

That's great if you're asking someone reasonable. I'm sure some people would ignore me and some would be abusive. So I don't do anything atm.
It's also not always possible on public transport now, not since a few weeks ago I've noticed it getting a lot busier.

I'm not asking you for solutions. Perhaps there isn't any. I'm just pointing out that sometimes who don't wear masks and stand too close, it impacts me so I feel it is my business and I wish we lived in a society where people could be ask nicely to move away.

I am horrified by the suggestions from pp that you should make sure your lanyard is more obviously displayed or that you need to explain why aren’t wearing a mask because other people don’t have genuine reason not to. Is this really what this country has become ? I hated the idea of wearing a mask but have fully complied since the new ‘laws’ were introduced. In that time I have seen only 3 people not wearing masks in my local shops and am proud that as far as I could see no one took it upon themselves to question this in any way. Only a few short months ago we were being told to ‘be kind’ - didn’t last long !

@ExchangedCat

This whole topic, on top of the rest of the lockdown policing, has pushed me to my limits. The number of people who think everyone else should divulge their own business whilst being either unqualified to assess the impact or uncaring of the harm it causes makes me angry and upset in equal measure. None of that is your fault - your post just got to me. I hope for all our sakes this ends sooner rather than later.

Likewise this topic got to me where people didn't seem to realise that there are people who are relying on others to keep within the rules, like masks, social distancing, hand washing etc to keep them safe. We can't do it alone unless we stay locked in our homes. I just wanted to point out the flip side as to why some people are geniunedly concerned about this. We aren't all power hungry people who can't wait to dob others in.

@RealityExistsInTheHumanMind

I agree that confronting people in the street is not on. But saying that wearing a mask if at all possible and practicing social distancing to avoid infecting other people isn’t bullying, is it? We need to try everything we can to avoid further infections, right?

There are spikes in infection occurring globally, we’re not out of this pandemic yet!

I’ve heard the condition you have is absolutely awful, you have my full sympathy. I’m sorry you can’t wear a mask but I think the mask police are very often scared people, worried about catching the virus. It’s a horribly difficult time for everyone.

[quote AmICrazyorWhat2]@EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire. I assumed that Apple was trying to protect their employees from risk of infection? Those Apple repair appointments can go on for a while as they have to talk to the customer about problems with their device- I suppose the customer could put the device on the counter and step 2m away to talk. But it’s still more of a consultation than a quick trip to the shop.[/quote]
Then the staff should wear masks*. Problem solved!

*Exemptions apply (obviously).

@Looking4wards

If people move too close, step away. If you can’t, then ask them to step away. Many just haven’t realised they are too close.

That's great if you're asking someone reasonable. I'm sure some people would ignore me and some would be abusive. So I don't do anything atm.
It's also not always possible on public transport now, not since a few weeks ago I've noticed it getting a lot busier.

I'm not asking you for solutions. Perhaps there isn't any. I'm just pointing out that sometimes who don't wear masks and stand too close, it impacts me so I feel it is my business and I wish we lived in a society where people could be ask nicely to move away.

Yup I understand that.

Trouble is, as others have said, the folk who will likely tell you to do one don’t get challenged. The vulnerable get challenged because they don’t look threatening. Then the challenger feels better for five minutes but has no idea that person might have sleepless nights and not leave gone for two weeks because of that challenge.

@RealityExistsInTheHumanMind
@MMN123
Those who are concerned will shop in the places they feel take it seriously. Other places will lose customers or their staff will end up off sick. Market forces will win out.

@Market forces will definitely win out. - Mostly by sensible people taking sensible precautions getting more custom and Prats trying to enforce unenforceable, unworkable and unreasonable rules will go out of business

Yes indeed - it will take time but people will instinctively move towards safety and away from danger so if covid persists the businesses that adapt will survive and thrive. Remains to be seen what the best adaptations will be!

I work in retail and it is horrible for customers who don’t wear a mask because they are exempt, l had to step in and tell someone to stop shouting at someone on my last shift. People make me mad they should just mind their own business.

What makes it worse is when you walk out the door and you see all the masks just thrown in the street.

@AmICrazyorWhat2
Masks don’t protect the wearer

MMN123 it is highly unlikely that in so many areas everyone can wear masks and suddenly in another area 60% of people can't. People on this thread mention huge proportions of shoppers in certain areas not wearing masks. Yet in other areas (including in my direct experience areas with a concentration of facilities for the elderly and the disabled and neurodiverse communities 95% of people are wearing masks...).

As with vaccinations - the refusers are the problem for everyone, not the people who genuinely can't, and the people who genuinely can't are very often high risk so hit by a double whammy from those who could but don't want to.

@EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire. I believe the masks are to protect other people from the wearer’s germs, right? So if I’m unmasked and talking to you (wearing a mask), I can infect you!

[quote Looking4wards]@MMN123
It’s your responsibility to be alert to your proximity to others even when you are standing still.

Stay 2m away.

Not an issue if they aren’t wearing a mask.

Many folk can’t wear masks so assume you will encounter unmasked people if you go into a shop.

Then decide if you want to enter and be vigilant or not enter.

You're assuming they were in the shop first, that's not always the case. If I'm mid-way through a transaction am i suppose to leave just because someone else entered without a mask and decided not to observe the distancing rules?
I'm also having issue on public transport. If I get off everytime someone without a mask stands too close I'll never get to my destination.
So what's the solution for me? Am I suppose to stay at home then?[/quote]
YES

If you are that paranoid, when way under 0.05% of the population has Covid staying at home is the best option because there are plenty more potential fatal bacteria and virus out there that are far more likely to kill you at the moment.

EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire the problem is not solved unless you believe retail staff have N95 respirator masks!

[quote AmICrazyorWhat2]@EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire. I believe the masks are to protect other people from the wearer’s germs, right? So if I’m unmasked and talking to you (wearing a mask), I can infect you![/quote]
And that will somehow magically not be a problem if they serve you at the door or tell you to come back outside normal hours? Okay then.

@RealityExistsInTheHumanMind
If you are that paranoid, when way under 0.05% of the population has Covid staying at home is the best option because there are plenty more potential fatal bacteria and virus out there that are far more likely to kill you at the moment.

I'm going to assume that you didn't see my previous post where I said I was higher risk but didn't want to go into details. But apologies if you have seen it.
Just to clarify are you saying, anyone with underlying conditions who is still concerned about the risk of Covid is paranoid and should just stay at home?