To ask the mask police to please PLEASE stop

[PennyDreadfuI]

Another mask thread but I'm not going to apologise because I'm absolutely at the end of my tether with this sort of thing.

I can't wear a mask because I have trigeminal neuralgia and I've lost count of the stares, comments and filthy looks I've had (and yes, I do wear a lanyard, even though I'm not keen on advertising the fact that I have a hidden health condition). I've heard of people not being allowed on buses, being challenged by staff to explain their reason for exemption and being told they can't enter shops despite being exempt (none of which is legal). I've been told I should wear a visor (I can't, and they're next to useless anyway - Scotland have just banned them unless they're worn with a mask), that I should just stay at home (I can't and neither do government guidelines suggest I should), that I shouldn't use buses (I don't drive and can't walk long distances or cycle because I have inflammatory arthritis) and that I'm selfish (I'm not - if I could wear a mask, I would).

I understand this is a contentious issue but please, can people just think for a minute before they judge or comment? Exemptions are there for a reason - those who are sticklers for The Rules should surely accept and respect this one, too. It's awful that people are too scared to go out for fear of what's essentially discrimination.

The pandemic is bad enough by itself - let's not lose our sense of empathy and humanity, too.

[quote AmICrazyorWhat2]@OwlBeThere. I was really surprised and relieved he could wear one, he hadn’t been out since March, this was his first trip out. It’s an awful situation for people like our parents as they wouldn’t have a hope if they caught COVID-19 so their lives are so limited atm.
I hope your Mum is doing OK.[/quote]
Even amongst the very vulnerable, more recover than don't.

I am not knocking your concern because they are definitely at greater risk but it might ease your mind if you realised that they have probably a 9 in 10 chance of recovery or, at worst, 50/50. Not as good as younger people but not definitely fatal.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

MMN123 it is highly unlikely that in so many areas everyone can wear masks and suddenly in another area 60% of people can't. People on this thread mention huge proportions of shoppers in certain areas not wearing masks. Yet in other areas (including in my direct experience areas with a concentration of facilities for the elderly and the disabled and neurodiverse communities 95% of people are wearing masks...).

As with vaccinations - the refusers are the problem for everyone, not the people who genuinely can't, and the people who genuinely can't are very often high risk so hit by a double whammy from those who could but don't want to.

I agree. We can’t distinguish the won’t wears from the can’t wears.

It’s not for the general public to intervene.

We all agree the won’t wears should wear. But vigilantism just leads to bullying of the can’t wears.

Some areas will have higher proportions of folk who can’t wear. But I agree it doesn’t explain the level of variance.

I know how you feel OP,I can't wear a mask and so far most people have been lovely apart from the sodding security guard a Primark last week that shouted at me for not wearing a mask.

Luckily my BFF was with me and gave him as good as he was trying to give me and another lovely lady(I wish I'd had the chance to thank her properly)who walked in after us and heard what he was saying to me(it wasn't hard he was really shouting at me)and had a right go at him for me.

Him shouting at me made me feel awful and made me feel even more vunerable than I already feel,I'm disabled and I'm now losing my hearing and there's nothing my Dr's can do about it so being screamed at by a member of staff in a massive shop infront of tons of other people really helped my anxiety,Not!

I don't have a lanyard,not for the want of trying everywhere I've tried to get one has run out and myself and my DH have tried several different places now and I can't even order one online because they've sold out,but my health is so bad now that you can see I'm disabled and it's very very obvious that I was having to lip read and was using some sign language as well.

I think I could of gone into that shop dressed as a sodding sunflower and he'd still have had ago at me!

[quote AmICrazyorWhat2]@RealityExistsInTheHumanMind

I agree that confronting people in the street is not on. But saying that wearing a mask if at all possible and practicing social distancing to avoid infecting other people isn’t bullying, is it? We need to try everything we can to avoid further infections, right?

There are spikes in infection occurring globally, we’re not out of this pandemic yet![/quote]
The issue is the confronting of individuals in the real world.

Of course it’s right folk should wear masks if they can and everyone should keep their distance.

@EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire. I actually didn’t know they were doing curbside consultations, the Apple store in our area is closed. Everything has to be sent in for repair. So yes, that’s weird and I don’t get it!

[quote Looking4wards]@RealityExistsInTheHumanMind
If you are that paranoid, when way under 0.05% of the population has Covid staying at home is the best option because there are plenty more potential fatal bacteria and virus out there that are far more likely to kill you at the moment.

I'm going to assume that you didn't see my previous post where I said I was higher risk but didn't want to go into details. But apologies if you have seen it.
Just to clarify are you saying, anyone with underlying conditions who is still concerned about the risk of Covid is paranoid and should just stay at home?[/quote]
NO
I am saying that very few people out there have it - so they can't spread it.

Currently there are 4 times as many people dying from flu and other respiratory illnesses than from Covid 19. You are at risk - but infestimely different risk than you were last year. In fact probably less than last year because of social distancing rather than masks.

The chances of coming into contact with anyone with Covid are minimal so the only reason to stay home is fear rather than Covid.

[quote Looking4wards]@RealityExistsInTheHumanMind
If you are that paranoid, when way under 0.05% of the population has Covid staying at home is the best option because there are plenty more potential fatal bacteria and virus out there that are far more likely to kill you at the moment.

I'm going to assume that you didn't see my previous post where I said I was higher risk but didn't want to go into details. But apologies if you have seen it.
Just to clarify are you saying, anyone with underlying conditions who is still concerned about the risk of Covid is paranoid and should just stay at home?[/quote]
I think the vulnerable should consider investing in better quality masks that do protect them, rather than simple fabric masks.

[quote AmICrazyorWhat2]@EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire. I actually didn’t know they were doing curbside consultations, the Apple store in our area is closed. Everything has to be sent in for repair. So yes, that’s weird and I don’t get it![/quote]
Honestly, I really have no idea if it's me being thick here...but if someone couldn't wear a mask so they were served at the door instead then what's stopping that staff member from being infected from that interaction? Then the staff member goes back inside and infects more people from there...surely it would just be easier to let the non mask wearer in but tell them they will need to keep a bigger distance from staff and other customers?

There was a guy in my local Poundland wearing something like this the other day:

www.amazon.co.uk/OHMOTOR-Respirator-Activated-Organic-Cartridge/dp/B07NZZJRVL?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

I assumed he has an underlying condition!

And this Apple is in a huge shopping centre where the normal exemptions are being applied. So you're safe from being infected in the Apple store but once you leave or go into any other shop you're fair game.

Sounds like Apple and other companies are implementing a global company policy. Which they are entitled to do. Nothing to do with whether the government allows exemptions.

And as with everything else, consumers will ultimately decide if that’s acceptable.

Apparently CostCo have the same policy.

What is really fucking me off here is those saying

'People are taking the piss and not wearing them so we should be able to challenge those not wearing them'

Which is fine in principle BUT no-one is challenging those who are clearly (even to me who supports choice) taking the piss. Large groups of people and some men (and even me if I chose not to because I have a resting bitch face that puts most people off).

Instead they choose to challenge those who look timid, scared, weak, nervous etc etc. The people who clearly wouldn't dare say boo to a goose, the people who would really rather avoid shopping where they can, the people who have already been discriminated against BECAUSE they know they can get away with it.

It's the 'Kick the Cat syndrome'. Someone has pissed on my cornflakes today. I saw a big bloke without a mask but I daren't say anything; I saw 4/5/6 teenagers laughing without masks but they'd tell me to fuck off; Oh look, there's a young woman with a baby - I'll tell her what I think of her not wearing a mask. she's an easy target

Yes and their policy is fucking gross.

And that's all I have to say in the matter. Good night

on the matter

MMN123 vulnerable people are often among the financially poorest and respirator masks are more expensive than community masks and need to be fitted to the wearer (as in the correct model for the head and face, not every mask forms a seal on every head and face shape). They need to be put on properly to be effective too - far more fiddly than a community or surgical mask - which again not every vulnerable person can do.

Why do you believe the onus is on the medically vulnerable rather than the whole community? How do you square the circle of medically fragile people with learning disabilities and autism who are among the tiny percentage who genuinely cannot wear masks having the human right to be part of society? It's people like that who are shat on from all directions by those who won't wear masks because they are hot/ uncomfortable/ they just don't want to/ don't like them and declare it nobody else's business.

Apple is trying to act as a responsible employer and retailer.
It is offering services for those unable to wear masks that reduce risk, outside consultations will be safer than ones held in smaller indoor spaces.
While making sure everyone who can wear a mask does.
I'm in the USA currently and where I am wearing masks is totally normal inside, there are exempted people in some situations but compliance is very high.

@IdblowJonSnow

I feel for you, however I got on a bus the other day and only 2 people out of 7 had masks on. I was really annoyed but said nothing. I just dont believe that all of those 5 had a hidden disability. But I am sorry for the minority who do and get shit. Bus driver said buggar all. I wont be getting a bus again any time soon.

There are many millions of people with health conditions or disabilities that could make them exempt (12% of the UK population have asthma, and that's just one condition).

And more people (mostly women) who have PTSD or similar from being smothered by abusive partners. And others who aren't exempt for themselves, but are because they are travelling with someone who can't communicate with them if they are wearing a face covering. Etc.

So of course it is believable that a random 5/7 people could be exempt. Especially on a bus, since people affected by issues making them exempt are more likely to be poor and less likely to drive.

The bus driver rightly said nothing, because it would be discrimination to do so, for which he could be fined thousands of pounds. Only a police officer or similar official can ask for details of your reasonable excuse.

Many of the people who are exempt, are also people who could be most vulnerable to coronavirus. Again, these factors are correlated.

So if it helps you develop your sense of humanity, why don't you think patronising thoughts about how you are helping those not wearing one, instead of judging them?

OH DEAR ME.

Always the outliers have the loudest voices.

As an expendable, sorry, vulnerable person, I would happily wear a mask that meant others didn't have to. It would give others freedom.

But yes, not all people, vulnerable or not, can.

rosiejaune of all those with asthma most can wear a mask. The exception is there if they need it but doesn't mean all those people automatically don't wear a mask. Legally they have exception, morally they only use it if they personally need it - most don't.

That applies to every reason for exemption.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

MMN123 vulnerable people are often among the financially poorest and respirator masks are more expensive than community masks and need to be fitted to the wearer (as in the correct model for the head and face, not every mask forms a seal on every head and face shape). They need to be put on properly to be effective too - far more fiddly than a community or surgical mask - which again not every vulnerable person can do.

Why do you believe the onus is on the medically vulnerable rather than the whole community? How do you square the circle of medically fragile people with learning disabilities and autism who are among the tiny percentage who genuinely cannot wear masks having the human right to be part of society? It's people like that who are shat on from all directions by those who won't wear masks because they are hot/ uncomfortable/ they just don't want to/ don't like them and declare it nobody else's business.

“Why do you believe the onus is on the medically vulnerable rather than the whole community?“

I don’t. Why do you think I do?

Someone repeatedly raised concerns about being in any building with a person without a mask. That is unavoidable. So common sense would dictate an individual might want to take greater precautions. Some not being able to afford it is not relevant to one person who might want to consider it, because it’s of great concern to them.

The issue is, there are a million things we can/should be doing in order to protect each other. Masks are the one thing that's visible, so mask-wearing has inaccurately become a totem of "protecting others" because you can't see if a person is doing or not doing all the other things.

I know people who can't wear masks. They rarely go outside, except when absolutely essential. They practice stringent hand washing and other hygiene measures. They haven't been in the same room as anyone not in their household for months. They practice social distancing. They do everything right. Wearing a mask is the one thing they don't do, but as they're being so vigilant about everything else, the chance of them being infected is incredibly low to begin with. You can't infect others if you're doing everything possible to avoid getting infected yourself!

On the other hand I know loads of people who behave as though wearing a mask gives them carte blanche to act like the pandemic is over and they can go back to normal: partying in large groups, getting drunk and snogging random strangers, socialising with lots of different people, travelling internationally, ignoring social distancing completely. And some of them wear the same dirty mask which is never washed and gets shoved in a pocket or bag when it's not being worn. Someone like that has a very high chance of being catching COVID, and wearing a dirty cloth mask isn't going to do much to lessen their chance of infecting others. If anything it does harm, since people see the mask and think the person is "safe" to get close to.

It's not as simple as masks=safe no mask=unsafe.

I often wonder why those in South Korea and elsewhere just got on with it. No exemptions.

But there we are, they have the lowest stats for outbreaks, but what do I know.

@KitKatastrophe

TBH now, if someone cannot wear a mask, why go out and spread it around?

So you think people with disabilities should be confined to house arrest for however long we are required to wear masks? Not allowed to go to any indoor public space. I guess you're not one of these people then?

If that is the case why not just go back to the shielding and those vulnerable people can be under house as arrest forever and then everyone else can go about their business.

But a lot of vulnerable people are being pushed into doing that because if the amount of people not SD and not wearing masks.

I'm having to get close to people at work who aren't wearing masks. One lady coughed just as she was lent near to me giving me her money. Whether she was exempt or not makes absolutely no difference if she has the virus does it?

@yolio

I often wonder why those in South Korea and elsewhere just got on with it. No exemptions.

But there we are, they have the lowest stats for outbreaks, but what do I know.

Those who can’t wear a mask can’t leave their home in some countries.