How many people have been failed by the NHS during lockdown?

[Polnm]

My DH has cancer.

His appointment in April was by phone
His appointment in August was postponed until October

How is this acceptable? Hospitals are empty whilst patients can’t access care.

GP appointments by zoom with a 2 week wait for a basic blood pressure check in person or to take bloods

Why isn’t there more publicity and outrage about this?

We can’t be the only family going through this surely?

@Carycy

People saying they are being failed by the government not the nhs. Sorry but it’s the management of the nhs that is too blame. Largely bloated and mediocre and treats their clinical staff like crap. That system of putting non-clinical mediocre management in charge of everything was put in place by the labour government. You can’t blame the government for everything. Blame the nhs for not managing their side of everything properly yes. This is nothing to do with being underfunded. The government do not run the nhs.

This 1000000%. People should specifically blame NHS management. The medical staff who do actual clinical work, are in fact very concerned about mortality and morbidity due to delays in presentation and treatment. It is literally outwith our hands.

The thing is I don’t begrudge The Nightingale as we could have needed it and hindsight is great but no one knew at the time how things would pan out.

What I begrudge is the costs involved with ridiculous systems that don’t work and continue to not work that no one looks at and asks why?

The 15,000 missed appointments must cost on paperwork and time and the subsequent phone calls to book an appointment £75,000 per year at the very least.

Just on that department alone that has been operating the same system for over 10 years that I have known must be around £750,000 wasted. The figure could possibly run into millions over the last 10 years and that is not taking account that the system was in place for years before that and will be in place for years after.
The amount of wasted paper that gets sent out with meaningless appointments on must account for at least 1/2 a small forest that has ended up in the bin.

Thank-you for all of your replies, I have read them all. Sorry I haven’t managed to reply to Them all

Pre Covid, a few years ago, I ended up in hospital for a week (and needing an ambulance to get there!) because I wasn't treated earlier, despite repeat visits to the GP. Must have wasted hundreds if not thousands of pounds compared to if they'd treated me earlier.

The system is dysfunctional. There's some great people working in it, of course. (I will never forget the incredibly kind paramedics who ended up essentially demanding to the A&E staff that I was admitted to hospital.) But the system they work in is appalling.

Oliversmum I agree with everything you say. I don't begrudge the Nightingale hospitals, if they'd been used we would all have said what a brilliant idea they were.

What I begrudge is the costs involved with ridiculous systems that don’t work and continue to not work that no one looks at and asks why?

Yes my DM is under a haematologist and her latest blood test showed she is anaemic and needs prescription grade iron tablets. But he can't prescribe them, he has to write to her GP to get him to prescribe them for her .

So she waits a week, phones the GP surgery who say no they've heard nothing, give it 2 weeks then phone again. Still heard nothing so phones GP surgery who say to try phoning the hospital. She tries the hospital department who aren't answering their phone so she phones the GP again. The receptionist says to leave it with her and the next day she gets a phone call from surgery to say that they have presumably kicked somebody up the arse the doctor has written a prescription for her and it should be ready to collect from the pharmacy in a couple of days.

All for a fucking iron prescription.
Why the GP had to be involved at all is beyond me. I honestly think that the NHS relies too much on GPs, to the detriment of both GPs themselves and patients.

I'm sorry if HCPs on here feel that they are always being criticised, I actually think the NHS in it's current form is massively failing patients and many clinical staff.

The nightingale were pretty useless for severe COVID patients as it is not (as was then thought) a respiratory disease. At least 50% of people with severe COVID need not just respiratory support, but things like kidney dialysis and blood works to prevent and treat clots. The nightingales could never have delivered that - and neither could cottage or most private hospitals.

Porcupineinwaiting

As I said hindsight is great.

That sounds familiar, Waspnest. My mom had a routine blood test and that evening had a phone call to say she needed to go in to the lical hospital. She was severely anaemic and was kept in for 2 weeks. She had several bloid transfusions etc and was told, on being discharged, that she would need to see her GP to have iron injections every 3 months. We had to contact the GP to sort it out but they said they didn't do iron injections so we had to contact the hospital to sort it out. This took weeks of faffing about. What a bloody palaver.

When my brother was diagnosed with prostate cancer, the nurse who gave us the results said 'Here's a leaflet. Decide if yu want surgery or radiotherapy and give me a ring on Monday to let me know." My brother has learning difficulties and didn't have a clue. I had to pester her to make appointments with an oncologist and a surgeon so we could make an informed decision. Ludicrous!

Both of these incidents were pre-Covid but I needed a bit of a rant

My DH put on the cancer pathway. All he got was a phone call and told he’d have a second scan of the mass in six months. No biopsy, nothing. He’s having problems because of the growth.

Handed a leaflet and told to let them know is standard across many nhs departments. Open the leaflets and the whole thing tells you very little and often says talk to I think they mention the health profession.

Those that sit and explain the options in person, answer questions etc I have found those departments are run how you would expect. These are what make the NHS a fabulous resource.

I was under consultant/hospital care for about 7 months. Every single appointment I attended at the hospital were done on the same day rather than attend on different days. Those long days they ensured I had access to the patients lounges because I was ill. During the many hospital admissions, the consultant would check in daily or someone from his team. They worked with me to give me the treatment I needed. When I had to contact them, replies were incredibly quick. Gp doing welfare phone calls.

Same hospital, different department and it all falls to shit and you are treated like nothing, and often feel like you are forgotten about and ignored.

How is that governments fault?
Read the reviews for individual hospitals, some departments get excellent feedback, whereas others you read and think oh shit I'm fucked when I get there.

@Illdealwithitinaminute

So so upsetting to read these stories, tragic for the individuals and worrying as we head into winter.

Are private hospitals up and running yet? There have always been unacceptably long waiting lists IMO for some things- my husband had a testicular lump, everything was crawling along, we went private and saw someone within a couple of days and surgery within a couple of weeks, not in Covid times, but I wonder whether going from every angle would help?

If private hospitals aren't up and running either (as that's their source of income) that suggests that the risks to staff are still too high in terms of social distancing etc for them to feel it is worth it. Covid is low now, including in hospitals, but it does spread super-quickly in enclosed environments, so I can understand why there is some caution, especially after the care home debacle.

I'm only just reading this thread now. Two weeks ago I had a minor orthopaedic procedure in a private hospital. Private hospitals that have been released from the NHS arrangement seem to be getting back to normal

What's happened to people is terrible. I never understood the big hoopla about how well they have done as the NHS wasn't overwhelmed. It wasn't overwhelmed because everything was cancelled.

The government could stop paying pensions and give all the money to low income families as pensioners die of starvation - would we then celebrate the drop in child poverty?

On Friday my mother in law couldn't be woken up so FiL rang for an ambulance, the paramedics arrived in minutes and eventually brought her round. They advis ed

That she went to hospital. She had a CT scan which proved no stroke but her heart isn't right. She's now on the cardiac ward. He treatment has been brilliant at a "failing" hospital. I blame the lack of care some people have had on the government, I'm sure they're trying to ruin the NHS so they can champion private care.

@goose1964

That she went to hospital. She had a CT scan which proved no stroke but her heart isn't right. She's now on the cardiac ward. He treatment has been brilliant at a "failing" hospital. I blame the lack of care some people have had on the government, I'm sure they're trying to ruin the NHS so they can champion private care.

How can the disparity of care across individual hospitals, or even departments within a hospital be the fault at the government?

Are you suggesting that people within the NHS are being paid to deliberately keep the wards closed?

I admit I thought the timing was bad because it wasn't that long ago the government did want it privatised, just the public didn't want it so the idea was shelved.

After reading the thread I'm struggling to understand how this is completely down to the government.

I mean I do recollect some access to care would be disrupted like cancer treatment. I do remember them saying to cancel elective surgery and other minor things.

I don't remember them saying also close down - gp surgeries, phlebotomy, urology, gynae, diabetes, gastro, nephrology, neurology, rheumatology and more down.

I think a large number of people feel cheated - they “protected the NHS” (even though it was sanctimonious guff) and in return it has slammed its doors in their face.

You've summed up the whole thing very well. Then again some of us have felt that way about the NHS long before Covid happened. So this is just more of the same really.

These problems are largely because a worrying proportion of NHS staff seem overwhelmingly self-interested and tone deaf.

In my experience some of them are more interested in finding excuses for why they can't do what their paid for than actually doing their jobs. If only they showed more interest in the latter, then maybe things wouldn't be so much of a shitshow. There's no excuse at least for their poor communication. Nobody makes them ignore patients or tell them outright lies just to get rid of them or pass the buck. It's like they don't care or understand that behind each referral they "lose" is an actual human being in pain/suffering/waiting for much needed support.

And if posters are nhs staff as they have claimed, they only prove the point about self serving excuse making individuals.

Very rare for anyone from nhs to post on mn and say you know it is a fucking shit show. I'm very vocal on my actual SM accounts about it. I'm constantly in contact with local mps. I am trying to fight from within to help change this. I'm whistleblowing so much I'm surprised the whistle isn't heard miles away.

Some of the things they suggest we as patients have to do to get access to medical care.

@Waspnest
The prescriptions to get is truly ridiculous joke.
2 weeks on the 7th I saw my specialist nurse in hospital who changed my prescription for stronger prescription of antihistamines which I was to start ASAP and long term.
She could not sign the prescription ( only Dr) no Dr present in hospital.
She says she will send letter to my Gp.
I asked if it’s by post or digital.
She said by post- which surprised me, I thought they would use PC and send it digitally these days.
A week later I phoned my GP receptionist if they put the item on my repeat prescription - she said they received the letter from the hospital but no Dr viewed it as it’s Friday and advised me give them another week!
On this last Friday I phoned again and big fat Nothing.
She said she will look into it next week.
Shocking and bloody ridiculous!

Yes my DM is under a haematologist and her latest blood test showed she is anaemic and needs prescription grade iron tablets. But he can't prescribe them, he has to write to her GP to get him to prescribe them for her

Yep, that happened to my OH too with his cancer. Constantly to and fro between GP and consultant because neither will take responsibility. Whenever he has a complication or medication side effect and goes to GP, they are very reluctant to do anything and tell him to contact consultant. Same other way, if a blood test anomaly is picked up by the consultant, she just says to ask the GP for whatever is needed, when he contacts GP, they won't do anything without the consultant writing to them as they claim to have no access to the blood test results (which are done via the GP surgery).

It takes days, if not weeks, for the respective receptionists & administrators to establish a dialogue between GP and consultant to do something simple like, as you say, an iron tablet prescription.

Why the hell can't the GP/consultant just talk to each other directly in the first place, maybe even by something they may not have heard of called email? Why do they expect the patient to take control when it would be easier and quicker for them to make direct contact.

And why can't a cancer consultant issue a prescription for Iron tablets in the first place? It's nonsensical. When OH is having chemotherapy, the consultant issues the prescription for loads of tablets, anti biotics, anti virals, which are handed to him by the oncology dept.

We're at least on top of things and can keep on at the GP or oncology to get things sorted, but it must be awful for people who are , maybe, more elderly, forgetful, or whatever and don't have anyone to advocate for them - it's very easy to see how people fall through the cracks, when they're just passed around the NHS departments to sort themselves.

None of this inefficient stupidity is the govt's fault - it's the NHS management themselves who are putting up that kind of stupid obstacle. It would take the consultant a few seconds to tick a few boxes on their computer and print a prescription. But no, instead it's series of phone calls, letters etc spanning days/weeks.

I had an appointment booked for next week bloods, I got a call saying they had a cancellation so off I went and got them done early.

Arrived at the testing centre. They hadn't been sent any testing forms from my gp. Even with them contacting my gp to get it sent over, and the blood guy taking forever to clean the chair, I was in and out within 10 minutes. 10 fucking minutes. When a friend told me a few days ago they were in and out with 10 minutes I really thought they were winding me up.

Whilst I was waiting I mentioned something about hopefully this means I'm back on weekly testing, next 2 appointments were booked before I left.

Absolutely fabulous service. Why wasn't this booking system already in place? Wonder who will take credit for this and hopefully it stays for good. It's what we should have already had surely?

@Tarararara

Regarding the GP situation, I could understand it at the peak of the crisis - where are the sick with Covid people likely to present? At their GP. Shut down the surgeries so there is no risk of spreading infection. But now? There has been so much publicity about staying at home and not visiting the GP if you have symptoms, that the chance of someone in the waiting room having Covid must be less than the chances of someone sitting next to you in the Eat Out To Help Out restaurant!

Actually we have had several patients lie about symptoms to get in to see the Gp, once here they end up being moved to isolation room hiwever the fact they have been in means we then have to deep clean rooms, hallways, chairs, throw away anything in room that can't be cleaned, leave the room for 4 days if it had a carpet, change clothes ourselves, and we only have minimal.ppe ( surgical masks, pinny and gloves). It generally takes 3 staff away from their own lists for an hour cleaning the rooms and sorting it out leaving patients to wait in the waiting room whilst its all done. So actually you have definately risks of exposure in your GP surgery because as we have found out selfish people don't care about anyone else, much less other patients who are at severe risk if they catch covid. And when I say several its over 10+ who have lied and denied any covid symptoms until they are in the room with the GP.

^ this.
Get it regularly.

Sorry for all those suffering and waiting for proper care!

I have BUPA through work and ended up using it in lockdown. It was really good and quick. Feeling so sad that everyone can't get the same.