How many people have been failed by the NHS during lockdown?

[Polnm]

My DH has cancer.

His appointment in April was by phone
His appointment in August was postponed until October

How is this acceptable? Hospitals are empty whilst patients can’t access care.

GP appointments by zoom with a 2 week wait for a basic blood pressure check in person or to take bloods

Why isn’t there more publicity and outrage about this?

We can’t be the only family going through this surely?

@MaveyWavey

Tell us where you live and we’ll all move to your area.

From my experience your wonderful care is not typical!!!

Where have NHS staff claimed that "everything is open"?

I did say where I worked everything was pretty much open tbf but I work in a very specialised area where we could not and would not stop services ( despite London transport having restrictions and seemingly all the sm posts which are stopping services .... apparently).

Not on a par with your husband's cancer, OP, but I did something to my back 9 months ago. I was in the system and had an MRI scan in February. After that I was discharged "because of Covid". I got the results 3 months later over the phone, but the receptionist couldn't tell me what they meant. I still haven't been seen. They have prescribed three painkillers without seeing me. I am still in agony and can't walk. I am having to pee in an ice cream tub because I can't get off the loo without help. I have been to A&E twice, but they just say I need to be referred to orthopaedics, which I can be once the Covid crisis is over. It is an absolute disgrace.

'No face to face appointments, only over phone or video. I’m absolutely shocked It’s like we are going back to 17th century. Very basic care'

Well that's a bit extreme, I bet they'd have loved basic care and telephone consults in the 17th century.

You've got to give GPs some credit, they really do know when a face to face is required and when a telephone consult will suffice. I've heard some say it's great as it frees up more time to focus on the complex cases when urine infections and other run of the mill stuff can be dealt with via phone.

You've got to give GPs some credit, they really do know when a face to face is required and when a telephone consult will suffice.

That is not what many people on this thread have found though is it? Up to and including cancers being missed.

You've got to give GPs some credit, they really do know when a face to face is required and when a telephone consult will suffice*

MIL is 94. She has cataracts and won’t go for an eye test in case they tell her she needs surgery. She can’t hear very well. She has oedema in her lower legs and got to the point, where she couldn’t stand up or walk. After lying on the floor for 24 hours, as she could not get up, her daughter realised something was wrong and went round. SIL wanted the GP see her, to see what was wrong with her. (Malnutrition was one possibility, as she’d taken to living off cakes - can’t stand to cook either; and kidney damage was another as she won’t drink enough).

She has no conception of how to use a mobile phone, never mind a smart phone. The GP flatly refused to see her, saying a telephone consultation was enough and his attitude was he could tell, from 20 of
years clinical experience, that she should stay at home, and whatever was wrong with her would get better by itself! A week later, she fell and broke her hip. The hospital found she has Stage 1 kidney damage, and they gave her a blood transfusion for her anaemia. If the GP has 20 years of clinical experience, why didn’t he diagnose them over the phone?

Nobody can accuse MIL of being a hypochondriac - she didn’t go to the GP’s for 30 years, and they refused to believe she was a patient, until they found some old papers!

When I raised the question that DD might have anaemia, our GP agreed to a blood test - they did not try to diagnose it over the phone.

My NHS dentist isn't taking any non emergency appointments. My daughter needs braces. I am now paying a private dentist, which I am surprisingly happy about because the appointments are not rushed.

How are things?

I'm going into hospital on Monday. I haven't been able to eat solid good for 7 days now. Which I wouldn't class anywhere near as serious as cancer. I feel for you

Is it the postcode lottery??

The NHS are following government guidelines. The government have created this sorry mess but lets all blame the NHS.

As I said before my experience has been good. OOH got major stomach pains, referred to OOH GP who gave pain relief and sent me to main hospital where I had a Covid swab, scan to rule out other options and appendix out in 48h from first hint of discomfort... To be fair was pretty textbook symptoms.

2nd experience was more complicated. 18mo had barely responsive temperature, previous history of viral wheeze at similar times to previous use of Ibuprofen. 111 referred to OOH GP who sent us on to kids a&e where despite temperature he was acting well enough to escape with instructions to come back if worse. Couple of days later phoned GP for advice and again referred to paeds A&E where we saw a consultant - I was expecting no more than phone advice.

Plenty of times pre Covid I've felt GPs have seen us unnecessarily when phone advice would have been fine.

@gypsywater

Where have NHS staff claimed that "everything is open"?

@Pomegranatepompom posted I work in London - everything back to normal and we only postponed routine surgery for a few weeks

There are others in other areas who make similar claims.

Yes and that is the case where I work but you simply do not want to believe/accept that anyone has provided a good service in the nhs.

@oo0Tinkerbell0oo

The NHS are following government guidelines. The government have created this sorry mess but lets all blame the NHS.

I cannot talk about others. I am holding them both accountable at the moment until I see NHS being more proactive about patients being denied care and treatment.

Teachers won't shut up about the risks of opening schools without anything in place.
NHS wouldn't shut up when there was no PPE.
NHS wouldn't shut up when the direction of what happened in the care homes was leaning towards them.

I am not criticising them for the above, it's the only way sometimes to get government's attention.

Talks about various needed medical services still closed isn't being talked out loudly by the NHS. Where are their voices to say hey we need them open now, people are dying as a result. People are needlessly suffering. How can we do our jobs when our department is closed?

If it was guidelines it would be all phlebotomy departments across all hospital. It's not the case.
If it was guidelines it would be all diabetes clinics, all asthma clinics, all gynae departments, urology etc.
The thing is, this isn't the case.

Going to be interesting reading when all the reports start getting published from the various investigations this is creating.

@oo0Tinkerbell0oo

The NHS are following government guidelines. The government have created this sorry mess but lets all blame the NHS.

So how come one GP surgery stayed open throughout but another closed down completely?

How come some people got their cancer treatment, for others it was stopped dead?

The oncology dept that closed and the one that stayed open can't both have been following the same guidance can they?

@BovaryX
I agree.
I feel sorry for the British public who never had the chance to experience a healthcare in a different countries.
People in UK are very much blinded with ,,oh our glorious NHS- the best of best...
Well let me tell you this.
It’s not the best.
It’s not even near the best.
It’s a well know joke in all European countries.
In other countries I can get a specialist appointment in a week, even less.
If I go to the GP with some infection and it is not clear if viral or bacterial, the GP performs CrP test there and then, results in a second.
The same with blood test, they are done straight away at the GPs room-the results are usually the very same day, depending on the test. So no need to book another appointment just for blood test a month later.
Also you can instantly call to the Gp and speak to them- this is something completely unheard in here as the you can only call the receptionist if you lucky to get through.

Not as serious as cancer but I've required hospital treatment since the beginning of lockdown and gave still not been properly treated, risking life impacting longterm consequences

I haven't said that I don't believe anyone has gotten excellent care within the NHS. Like any other service they have good and bad points. I've also mentioned times when they care has been exemplary despite the issues they were facing at the time.

What I am not accepting is the mantra that nhs somehow unaccountable for the momentous fuck ups that are currently happening.

How is it the government's fault for the ridiculous policy of the hospital that insists nhs patients go between nhs and private hospital with patients? If that was government policy, all nursing staff would be doing this, yet they don't. Why shouldn't that manager be held accountable for wasting resources this way? What better use could that money have been spent on?

Those patients whose treatment is then impacted by this, do you really think they are all going to say oh well shit happens? And depending on how far a patient takes their complaints, things like this will be uncovered.

Patients don’t matter, they are an inconvenience

Yes. At the most basic economic level, in private health care, the patient is a ^revenue source. In the NHS, the patient is an inconvenience, a revenue drain. The truly dysfunctional relationship between patient and health care provider has been made explicit during Covid. No other country on the planet had as its Covid slogan 'protect X health care provider.' It is so twisted, so back to front, it's laughable. The function of any successful healthcare system is to protect the patient to provide a service to the patient.* Not require the patient to stay home and die to protect the healthcare system. And clap for the privilege.

@BovaryX
Why are you so invested when you dont use the NHS and live abroad? Genuinely.

Because relatives of mine have died because of NHS failures. Because I was born in the UK and I think the NHS is a national scandal. Because I have experienced excellent private health care and millions of people in the UK accept that third rate, sub standard care is the only option. It isn't. Why are you questioning my right to criticize the NHS @gypsywater?

@BovaryX Its a simple question, chill the fuck out

@gypsywater
I gave you a clear answer. Why are you swearing? Maybe you need to chill out. Maybe you need you to question why you are so defensive/aggressive?

hiddennameforever I agree. I've never lived abroad so I have nothing to compare the NHS to but friends from France and other EU countries think that the service the NHS provides is pretty poor in comparison to their countries. The only advantage of it is that it is free at point of delivery and the patient has no paperwork to do to access it.

Why shouldn't Bovary comment? I think the more of us Brits that realise actually the NHS isn't the envy of the world and we aren't getting a great service (for whatever reason) the more we will demand change.