How many people have been failed by the NHS during lockdown?

[Polnm]

My DH has cancer.

His appointment in April was by phone
His appointment in August was postponed until October

How is this acceptable? Hospitals are empty whilst patients can’t access care.

GP appointments by zoom with a 2 week wait for a basic blood pressure check in person or to take bloods

Why isn’t there more publicity and outrage about this?

We can’t be the only family going through this surely?

I think the more of us Brits that realise actually the NHS isn't the envy of the world and we aren't getting a great service (for whatever reason) the more we will demand change

This. Absolutely agree.

@Polnm

I’m allowed to be angry about that while also appreciating the work nhs staff have done in dealing with the pandemic. It’s possible to hold more than one thought about the same thing.

I agree. I am not blaming individuals. I am cross with the system.

I have been in 3 hospitals in the past week. They are certainly not anywhere near to being full. I read a news article that said a consultant was seeing less than 25% of their usual patients at a clinic. Some I imagine is because there is reduced access to GPs for referrals, some because people have been put on hold and appointments cancelled.

Actually, almost all will be because hospital real estate has Been underfunded for decades and clinics have been overcrowded. Appointments have been cancelled or made online to allow social distancing in the waiting rooms, and time between patients to clean down.

Before covid, I shared my clinic space with 3 other consultants, now we each do every third week, each with 50% fewer patients, that's a roughly 85% capacity reduction in face to face appointment slots....

@BovaryX I'm defensive?! Every time you are asked a question on here to clarify something, you snap at the person.

DS1 (18) called the doctor today thinking he had tonsillitis. They called him back and did a video chat where they advised him he may have an abscess and to go to hospital.

He went straight to hospital, had it drained twice to clear it and is now there overnight.

The NHS is fucking marvellous and we are beyond lucky to have this resource.

@Waspnest
In other countries it’s ,,free,, as well same as NhS.
Your contributions are taken from your wages- same as here.
If you are unemployed- it’s the government who pays the contributions behalf of you until you are employed again.
Another thing what he irritates me here is private consultation fees.
Why they are so high here?
Again in other EU countries the private fees are much lower and affordable.
So literally there is always option to go private if not happy with the state run health system.
An Mammogram would cost me about £30-£50 abroad.
In U.K. I was once quoted a apprx £1000 without any consultation.
Lots of people mentioned B12 injections here.
Privately in U.K. it looked expensive- I looked it up it was hundreds pounds per injection.
Again abroad these are so cheap to get privately.
I had them before and it cost me about £20 for 5 injections on a private prescription.
I just don’t get why private care it’s so pricey here..
If they want to lower the burden of NHs patients, then private care should be much cheaper and affordable.

I wasn't failed by the Nhs when I got COVID in March. I was failed by the government, but my GP, whose job it apparently was not, did call and care for me exceptionally well. I did try 111 but it was a waste of time. Probably they were understaffed.

I agree it is awful, but is it really the NHS? It does sound like there is some bad leadership out there in the NHS, but I think much of the blame rests with the government more than anyone else. They have set policy on distancing and where it should be applied.

I was failed by the NHS when I got Covid in March. I was triaged away by 111 because I could still talk. Never mind I was struggling to breathe and terrified. Since then, my GP has been lovely and done her absolute best, but she has very limited resources to deal with me as a long haul Covid patient, other than blood tests and, “rest, wait and see”.

I was one of those “in the system” at lockdown, waiting for an urgent EEG after the first one showed abnormalities following a one-off seizure. I still haven’t had that EEG. I have no driving licence with no prospect of getting it back because I’m still waiting indefinitely for the relevant tests.

We are not meant to say anything against the NHS but it is badly failing people. I’m wondering what the “protect the NHS” was for when I didn’t get seen by them during lockdown for my non-covid illness, but then they wouldn’t see me for Covid either. Who exactly were they seeing?

The NHS is fucking marvellous and we are beyond lucky to have this resource.

It's not marvellous for lots of people though is it? In a well off developed country why do think we should consider ourselves lucky for basic healthcare? It's this attitude of "how lucky we are" that prevents people from accepting that something somewhere has to change. It's possible to appreciate having healthcare and be aware that the NHS isn't a sacred cow that can never be critcised. Why don't you tell the people with cancer who have been ignored that the NHS is fucking marvellous?
Or the parents of autistic children who spend hours of the day chasing up referrals that weren't done and when they are done the clinic in question denies all knowledge of it?
Or to any of the other people who are being let down. Because i can assure you, the NHS is far from marvellous to them.

I haven't RTFT, but I lived in Spain for 3 years, used the health service there quite a bit (including for mental health, A&E, smear tests, standard doctor appointments, pregnancy and childbirth - it was an eventful 3 years) and honestly, when comparing it with the UK I didn't think it was massively different. Personally I wouldn't say the NHS was vastly superior or inferior based on my experience, although I imagine statistically one is better than the other. There are things I thought were better in the UK, and things I thought were better in Spain, but overall both seemed similar.

Not very exciting or controversial, but when comparing with other countries people often seem to make out it is either vastly superior or vastly inferior. Maybe I just have experience of unusually good NHS care or unusually bad EU healthcare, I don't know.

The NHS is not marvellous for so many people.

What is more amazing though is that I wouldn't say this in public only on an anonymous forum.

It's awful to hear these cancer stories, it must be incredibly difficult for you all with no support.
Twohoots, that is so sad. I'm so sorry.
I was written to back in February saying I'd be booked in for a heart scan after results of a Holter test. I haven't seen anyone but in the letter they said they had put me on Beta blockers for now. My HR and my BP are generally low so I was a bit worried about this but they wouldn't have known that as I'd not talked to anyone. I started taking them anyway as it was a low dose and it sent my HR and BP down even further so i just stopped taking them.
I've not heard anything about the scan but have ectopic beats 24/7. I'm reassured by a FB group that this is quite common but it's unnerving when I can't be sure as I have other symptoms too.

It is possible to blame the government and the nhs at the same time. There has been very little outcry from nhs senior staff publicly about this.they should be lobbying for change. We can’t carry on having one basic strategy of lockdown/ease lockdown. There needs to be policies about how to deliver services in lockdown.

This former nhs official is suing the nhs over his cancelled cancer treatment. It may be worth people following suit:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/11/man-plans-to-sue-nhs-after-cancer-surgery-delayed-due-to-coronavirus

“A former senior NHS official plans to sue the organisation after he had to pay a private hospital £20,000 for potentially life-saving cancer surgery because NHS care was suspended due to Covid-19.
Rob McMahon, 68, decided to seek private treatment after Worcestershire Acute Hospitals NHS trust told him that he would have to wait much longer than usual for a biopsy. He was diagnosed with prostate cancer after an MRI scan on 19 March, four days before the lockdown began.“

A friend nhs manager whose cancer got worse did top ok

No read all this thread sorry. However as a nurse I can categorically say that the NHS has been let down by years of chronic underfunding and miss spending of money. That’s why you’s are all waiting ages for investigations and treatment.
End of.

However as a nurse I can categorically say that the NHS has been let down by years of chronic underfunding and miss spending of money. That’s why you’s are all waiting ages for investigations and treatment. End of.

Really, so underfunding and miss spending of money makes staff "lose" referrals does it? Does that make them fuck up paperwork for referrals and then lie about it?
The NHS has been let down in regards to funding, but it's also been let down in regards to the fact that there's no accountability. They can make all the mistakes they want, nothing ever changes. You conplain and you get a load of excuses.

There has been very little outcry from nhs senior staff publicly about this.they should be lobbying for change.

Yeah, they were all concerned about schools not opening. But not a peep about the fact their own services were suspended.

Losing referrals is probably due to underfunding (and IT systems being crap...and expensive) So yes admin fails definitely could be funding related.

Fax machines are archaic, either still in use or recently retired...

@JanMeyer
I was let down by Nhs in 2004, when I sadly showed first symptoms of the disease I got -( diagnosed fully in 2017)
I had a test in 2004 which showed all the high readings and I had the results paper in small writing saying urgent referral requested.
I never got that consultant referral.
I did not even noticed the remark until 2017- I only found it in my paperwork when looking for something else.
I never was sent a referral.
Now my diagnosis is fully developed and I suffer now forever- untreatable.
I had many flare up during the time from 2004-2017 but nobody took interest, always was fobbed off by GP.
If it would be followed up in 2004 It would get nipped in a bud.
So no NHS is not marvellous.
I always cringe when I hear the rubbish saying : oh Our precious NhS..
Disgusting and old fashioned to compare to other countries ( i lived in two other EU countries so I can fully compare)

@Angelina1972

No read all this thread sorry. However as a nurse I can categorically say that the NHS has been let down by years of chronic underfunding and miss spending of money. That’s why you’s are all waiting ages for investigations and treatment. End of.

No it's not "end of"

Misspending within the NHS is rife. That's down on the NHS to clear up in house just like any other business.

Shame you didn't read the thread, according to your colleagues, its not underfunding that is causing these hold-ups it's government policy that seems to vary depending on where you are in the country.

I was around when hospitals were chronically underfunded and some had to close. I was around when hospitals were closed down, and whole wards were shut to reduce costs. And you know what? I could still get routine blood tests needed. I could still get appointments, yes some were cancelled but quickly rebooked. When I called those hospital clinics during their opening hours, I could speak to someone or when I left a message, someone would call back within 24 hours, and some 7 days a week!

Now lucky to find an answer machine with any space to leave a message.

Read the thread, you will find lots with similar situations.

Oh yes the artwork. Wouldn't be as bad if the stuff was anything related to the medical field. From what I've seen, none of it is, well outside the museums anyway. Funny how they have the money for this,

People avoiding hospitals because they didn't know what they would catch was a legit concern for a lot of people. Hardly hear people mention this now since hospitals got their controls in place to prevent spread between patients.

What guidelines within the government says basically if you cannot be bothered to do your job within infection control guidelines, stay at home? Because those claiming it's the government are implying this. Yet we know this is bollocks. If hospitals weren't allowed to open without any infection controls they would have shut up shop until they had ppe.

If it was a shortage, aren't those who re-registered to cope with the shortage during the wave still registered and can fill some posts? If it was a shortage, nhs would be all over the media about it just like they have previously done. If it was due to underfunding, nhs would be all over media about this. I've been actively involved with their fight against these things in the past.

Cannot find 5 minutes to contact Union reps, to talk about it publicly etc, but can post for hours on a forum making up excuses about it's all down to the government, or the patient for not being pro-active enough.

It's what some in the NHS do. Watch how uncomfortable they get when you criticize any part of the nhs. Some will even start trying to come up with explanations even though they have no experience at the place or even the medical knowledge about the health issues. That's my experience.

Running Away the money clearly swilling around the system was paying for a swanky new entrance to Trust HQ and some artwork

Its not just the artwork, its the wasteful need to build swanky new hospitals everywhere rather than keeping servicable older buildings in good repair like in other countries. Our local hospital building is being replaced with a £30 million new one, but when I lived in Germany, older buildings were regularly kept in use and well maintained, rather than wasting the budget on rebuilding.

Its so obviously corrupt - as in people and companies are benefitting from these multi-million pound contracts, rather than the money going on actual healthcare.

The NHS is a spectacularly non-competitive, inefficient system because there is only one, state-protected provider of healthcare, rather than several, competing, non-profit making sickness funds regulated by law as in other European countries.

@RunningAwaywiththeCircus
I was actually thinking about suing in 2017 but I was told it’s more than 10 yrs old so no point. Also it was different trust ( London)

Plus I know Drs always cover for each other.
I asked my current trust consultant ( who already left this current trust) if he would support a letter for the court- he just politely smiled as said he can not as everything would depend on the results and treatment option in 2004 blablabla..
So no point.
But I must say I was really down cos of it especially when I was to be treated and 99% would be cured in 2004 and it all got lost as someone did not send me a letter. Or perhaps the Urgent referral request was not read properly etc,
Someone in NhS did not do their job properly as they should and now it’s too late.

However as a nurse I can categorically say that the NHS has been let down by years of chronic underfunding and miss spending of money. That’s why you’s are all waiting ages for investigations and treatment. End of

So is Boris running into our local hospital and throwing away blood test results on a regular basis so people have to go back for the same test over and over.
Or the government have secret earphones implanted in GPs ears telling them that although patients have all the symptoms of cancer/Heart attack/stomach ulcer to fob them off with pain killers or antacids etc

There wouldn’t be an underfunding problem if people had an ounce of common sense (re the dept with the 15,000 missed appointments per month) or actually did their job right in the first place.

How much does it cost to do a blood test for a cancer patient. Compare that with the cost of having to do the same blood test multiple time’s on the same patient because it keeps getting lost.

What about, just one example, when a patient goes to a gp and says they think they have bowel cancer. They have all the symptoms, there is a history of bowel cancer in the family.
If they were sent for a test and then a simple routine operation it would have cost the NHS but then you have to the reality of what is happening.

Multiple prescriptions for laxatives. Blood tests for cholesterol levels and generally fobbed off with come back in a few weeks if you are still having problems.

Till the patient is so ill they end up getting diagnosed on a trolley in the middle of A&E

If someone was tested for what they thought they had in the first place or the gp just sent them for one blood test where they tested for everything then would we have such long waiting lists.
How many people on here have taken up operating time and bed space or appointment times for something that wasn’t necessary if a doctor had done the job right in the first place or just listened to their patient.

Look at how much money is wasted then tell me the NGS is underfunded.

The amount wasted on Nightingale Hospitals and paying for hotels for people discharged from hospital ( and not used) and private hospitals could have massively funded the smaller cottage style hospitals that keep elderly people near their home and relatives and provide rehab facilities to keep people home as well as clinics in the community. Instead they are closing them due to lack of money.