To ask how you keep Friendships after kids?

[Danni290]

I do not yet have kids. But most of my friends now do, and an ongoing problem is that I can’t seem to see them.

And if I do, the kids are there. Not just some of the time, or even half the time. All of the time.

I’m not expecting them to always leave their kids - but equally I’m not a massively kid person (as they were not before they had their own!) so I’m finding it difficult.

Any suggestions? Would it be reasonable to say something? Or just keep quiet and keep meeting up with them and their kids?

I’ve hinted to not bring the kids - like let’s have a girls meet and it just doesn’t happen. Their kids are aged between 1-4 so I appreciate they’re young but like I said I’m not expecting them to always leave them just perhaps one in three or four times we meet, as we only meet every few months as it is.

I probably sound selfish but, as cute as the kids are I just feel like didn’t sign up for this! Conversation just isn't the same.

AIBU?

If I AIBU (or not) - suggestion please?

Another thought I often meet my friends after bedtime so 8pm ect

I think YANBU but I think I fall into a slightly different camp to the majority opinion on mn. I am in the middle of my friendship group to have kids, so not the first but there are still some who dont at mid 30s.

I found it annoying when I was childfree that one mate in particular had to bring her child along to everything. That opinion didnt change when I became a mum. Child free meetings are so important to me and I still spearhead them now even though I have 1 and expecting another.

Whilst it is nice that my close friends have a lovely bond with DS (and my best friend is a very interested god parent) it is just as important that I retain my own friendships with them.

People can make time I think a lot just choose not to. I will caveat that with a I have a very involved hands on DH and a relatively 'easy' baby/child. I know not everyone does.

It is very difficult - I am the only child free person in my old friendship group. It feels a lot like they’ve formed a new group without me that is “mummies only”. I completely understand that their priorities have changed and they want to do child friendly things but when it’s just a picnic in the park that’s nothing I couldn’t do. But I still don’t get invited.

The parents I’ve remained friends with are the ones who make the effort when they can - I know there is stuff they can’t do any more and they’re probably absolutely shattered but when it is all give on my side and I get the distinct impression that they aren’t prepared to make any effort in return I’ve given up after a while. Ultimately I’ve felt that I’m not worth the effort to them. The ones who have made the effort, even just small things, are the ones with whom my friendships have survived.

I accept that my life didn’t change and theirs did, but that works both ways.

OP I tend to go to my friends’ houses for dinner/drinks once their kids are in bed. That way they don’t need a sitter and I don’t need to make small talk with toddlers. Could that work for you?

It's like some mums feel they've moved on, even if their friends without kids are trying to be as accommodating and understanding as possible. The friend that dropped me would say things in passing about having kids making you more mature or responsible. I remember one instance where I gave her directions with a reference to a pub that had a really distinctive front. I said something like, "the vegan cafe's up the lane next to the pub with the gargolyes on it opposite the station" and she was quick to say, "Ah, going out to pubs! That time of my life is over." Erm, ok.

This is definitely a thing. I don't actually want to be friends with those people either, though, despite being a mum (apart from anything else, I want to go to the pub!). Also, there is a huge overlap between this sort of women and the ones who try to make working mothers feel shit.

Similarly, and more controversially, I don't really want to be friends with someone who thinks it's adorable that their DH can't be left with their children. I have a lot of sympathy for someone who has been let down by an unexpectedly shit husband, and obviously would do everything I could do accommodate a friend who was single/partner worked away, etc. But just thinking it's all very amusing that 'oh I couldn't leave them with DH, I'd come back to chaos! What would a man do with a baby hehehe' is a really great sign that this woman might be lovely but she's not my cup of tea.

I actually find it so depressing how many women on this thread have said that they are 'really lucky' that their partner is actually able to care for his own offspring.

You’re not selfish or being unreasonable but it’s just hard when you have kids. Personally I am exhausted by time DS goes to bed at 7. I work 4 days a week and have him on my non-working day. On the days I work I collect him at 4 so 4-7 is full on with playing with him, feeding, bath time etc. DH of course does his share but then weekends and evenings we have to try catch up on anything else which needs doing (laundry, food shop, life admin). So sometimes I really really don’t want to go out in the evenings and rest of time it’s either work or caring for child.

It was SO much easier without kids and we have another one due in 10 weeks!

YANBU

You see so many posts on here from women who are sad about not having any real friends, and often it turns out they 'let friendships slide' when kids were young and then the NCT/schoolyard friends eventually turn out to be more acquaintances, not real friends.

My friends are important to me, and I never saw why I should have to give them up when I had a partner at home. In the end, I didn't lose any friendships.

I feel like women are so quick to sacrifice everything in their lives once children come around. Sometimes that can't be helped but sometimes it is more of a choice. It might not seem like a problem at the time but so many women end up regretting it down the road.

I'm childfree by choice and so are lots of my friends. I go to them more which is grand, their kids are lovely but once they've gone to bed we get a good catch up and occasionally get a boozy lunch or dinner. I do miss the hours spent dissecting life over tapas but generally it's all good. I'd definitely say something like 'I'd really love to get together just the two of us' and see where you go.

@user1493413286

I’m currently in the stage of having young children and they are frequently there when I see friends; i grab opportunities to see friends without them but it’s few and far between and I kind of have to share those opportunities out between my friends so perhaps that means once a year I get to see individual friends without my DC. The other side of it is that as much as I want to see my friends and manage to finish a conversation I don’t see enough of my DC when I’m working so I don’t always want to be making plans where they then have to be with their dad.

When my friends' kids were little I used to offer to babysit for them quite regularly so they had child-free time to see other friends and family either together or separately, and then whenever the Grandparents were having them or friends' DH was staying in I'd get to see her on her own. Everyone was a winner

(It helps I suppose that I adore the kids!)

YANBU but neither are they, really. It’s really hard. I work full-time so weekends are for my daughter, I wouldn’t want to leave her behind while I had lunch with a friend. She’s not consistent enough napper either. As for nights out, she’s a poor sleeper so I’m knackered, don’t have much money because nursery is made out of gold (worth every penny, but damn), and I would prioritise getting a babysitter and going out with DP before I’d go out with a friend – and there are only so many nights out I can afford and handle (not a lot, currently, but like I said – shit sleeper and full-time job).

Could you go to their house for dinner? That’s our social life now: we see friends with kids during the day on weekends, and friends without kids come to dinner (pre-pandemic and now it’s allowed).

It’s not that priorities change just because; it’s that priorities HAVE to change. I think when friends start having kids you just have to suck it up and accept that you see them with kids in tow now. It’s not forever – little kids don’t stay little for long and can eventually do their own thing. Which is why I don’t really want to leave mine while she is still little.

I think for children under 1 and if they are breastfeeding then you maybe don't realise how hard it is to leave them, practically. Uts unlikely to be this though given the low numbers of people that are still EBF after 6 months. I did find it hard to explain to people why id struggle to leave a bottle refusing baby who feed every hour or so with someone and 'just leave them a bottle.

When they're down to just a couple of feeds a day though I think it's a different story. I do think unless the dad is abusive or completely shit then it's weird and controlling to not leave the baby or child with them. Like you say, the men still manage to carve out some child free time so why don't women? And often the woman is the only one that can put them to bed apparently...which is never ever going to get better unless the dad practices putting them to bed and the baby gets more used to it. I do think some women play the martyr and think it makes them a better mother to stay with their child all the time.

I also think that even if you like kids, its still annoying to try and catch up with friends and have conversation interrupted every two seconds, or spend time in mediocre out of town pubs with soft play etc

I do appreciate that some people just do not want to leave their baby and that's ok but I think they should acknowledge it does affect their friendships

I am that person. I’m glad to have a couple of friends who love opportunities to be childfree of an evening and also have the partner/family network to support that.

I have a couple of friends who don’t, and my time with them is now limited but we make it work. I tend to go over after 7 for wine or coffee so kids are in bed. One has two toddlers - I suck it up ocassionally and be the extra pair of hands she needs to take the kids to the park or on a day trip.

Its hard, but i think both parties have to accept the changes. One of my friends, I have just gone down to severely reducing contact because she will only do things with her child - even if its an hour for coffee and her husband is home. She just will not understand that her kid is the centre of her universe, not mine. And even if we do meet up with her child (which I don’t object to! i like kids, and he is her life, i do get it) the entire conversation is around him, and i barely get a ‘how are you’

It’s not that priorities change just because; it’s that priorities HAVE to change. I think when friends start having kids you just have to suck it up and accept that you see them with kids in tow now. It’s not forever – little kids don’t stay little for long and can eventually do their own thing. Which is why I don’t really want to leave mine while she is still little.

But it doesn't HAVE to, lots of people on this thread have described how they continued to see friends, child-free. I also work full-time with a toddler but hardly ever bring him when seeing friends; I do this mostly by socialising in the evening, but also I don't actually think dragging him along to an adult event is great quality time so I'd rather he was having a nice time with DH than sat being shushed in a coffee shop with me. I wouldn't go out during the day at the weekend more than once or twice a month but I feel no guilt about doing so. If you don't want to then that's absolutely fine but actually, your friends don't just have to 'suck it up', it isn't the only option and they're perfectly entitled not to wait around for you to re-emerge (and surely you're not going to see any more of your DD in the week when she's at school? Why will weekends suddenly not be sacred family time then? Is this really so short-term?)

Yes I agree. Priorities dont have to change, they get adapated a bit. But if you want to make time for friends, you will. I work full time with a toddler and I moved a few years ago out of London and thus away from most of my mates. I still make an effort to go up to London occassionally after work for dinner, or a weekend meet up. I do so because one of my priorities is keeping in touch with close friends and not just being a mum.

It is fine if your priorities are seeing your kids more, but I think people should acknowledge this as a choice rather than something that has to happen.

and surely you're not going to see any more of your DD in the week when she's at school? Why will weekends suddenly not be sacred family time then? Is this really so short-term?
No, but when she’s in school I won’t be paying exorbitant nursery fees, and hopefully she’ll be a better sleeper by then, so affording to go out in the evening will be more of an option. And from observing friends with older kids, weekend family time did cut down for them a little, actually – as they began to do their own thing/be left at parties/have sleepovers. Certainly friends I know with older children I saw less of when the kids were very little, for reasons similar to my own; and more once their kids were in school.

My post was very much individual experience, which was my point – my priorities have had to change based on sleep and money. If either of those things changes, and they will, and they will continue to evolve, I will see friends more. And in the main my friends have stuck around, though perhaps “suck it up” was the wrong phrase – we’ve always been a “bring the baby to the pub garden” group so having kids in tow has never been in question or a case of sucking it up. (Mine would, though )

I gave up.
My 2 best friends with kids became different people entirely and no longer gave a shit about me or my company.
They'd be tactless about my childlessness. (Desperately wanted a family)
I stopped contacting them first and it's been months.
I was sad at first, but I've built much better relationships with other friends so it's no big loss.

I lost a lot of friends when they all started having children and I didn't want them. It wasn't so much the fact that things in their life changed so much and despite what some people think childfree people do understand the challenges of having young children (hell, that's why most of us don't have them 😂) - it was the sense of superiority and the implicit view that some of those people had that because they had children they, and their time, was more important than mine. It was that I always had to make the effort because I was perceived to have more time (I was a junior doctor!) and basically my life and my commitments didn't matter.

Years later some of them contacted me again and wanted to resume the friendship - no apologies, just an assumption that my life had stood still waiting for them to come back. Nah. I'd moved on. Got more friends, better friends who respected my time and my commitments and put equal effort into our friendship.

I allways find it strange when before your friends have kids, you meet up regularly, once a week, go out for food, drinks, sports, cinema and then when they have their kids it's impossible to see them once a year let alone once a week, ai would obviously have loads of days each week in the afternoon or eve but they could only meet in the eve for couple hours on a single day and I would have to try and organise my life around it, I hope I never become so fixated with my kids that I completely blank friends who I know do not have kids and I at least make an effort to text/message them to meet up child free

@jimmyjammy001 Me neither! It's like the shared interests you had pop like bubbles when they have kids. I'm due my first in January, definitely not going to act like that.

but they could only meet in the eve for couple hours on a single day and I would have to try and organise my life around it

Well, duh.

I feel like women are so quick to sacrifice everything in their lives once children come around. Sometimes that can't be helped but sometimes it is more of a choice. It might not seem like a problem at the time but so many women end up regretting it down the road.

This. Totally this.

The thing is, I appreciate having kids is a massive lifestyle change but I also think a lot of it is choices. There are so many reasons why having your independence when you have kids is important. I am not taking a bit those with shit partners or no partner but those that have a choice but still need to be glued to their children. I just don't think it's healthy, for mother or baby. But just my opinion.

so many women end up regretting it down the road

I’ve seen friends say this - their kids are school age and are old enough to have their own interests and suddenly I hear them wail “Where did my life and all my old friends go?” I bite my tongue not to say “You chose to abandon them a long time ago...”

Daytime can be awkward. However ask to meet one evening a fortnight without the children. Partners can do the bedtime routine in friends absence.

Or ask to come round once the kids are in bed for a film and glass of wine

as we only meet every few months as it is
For a lot of people that's actually quite a lot of socialising with one friend when they have toddler DC! For me that would put you in the 'friends I really make an effort for camp'.
...they'll also have other friends, grandparents, and the children's friends they need to see. Plus the catching up on housework/food shop weekends if they've been working all week. Plus some people go to church/temple which takes up a weekend morning.
And this is at probably the poorest time in their lives - I have friends paying more in nursery fees than on their mortgages!

DS1 was in childcare/with grandparents a lot during the week, I didn't think it was fair on him to leave him too often at the weekend as well.
After work doesn't always work if nursery shuts at 6pm exactly and mum always does pick ups (because dad always does drop offs).