To be wary of a man who's never been in love at 38

[hellotesting123123]

I'm dating someone for the past few months who is kind and considerate. We have great chemistry and it feels like things are progressing nicely - he's introducing me to friends, talking about our relationship as if it will be long term, is consistent with contact etc. I find him super considerate, good at pulling his weight on practical stuff, very very handsome, and just nice to be around.

I actually posted about him before (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3987311-AIBU-to-consider-dumping-someone-because-of-their-job-prospects?pg=8) and it turned into a conversation which was more about his ability to commit, given he is 38 and doesn't seem to have had a relationship for longer than a year. People also pointed out that I should have an explicit conversation about kids with him because it is playing on my mind, and was the real issue behind me worrying about his financial situation and ability to be in a job etc.

Some people also felt he had dicked about a previous woman who was 36 and anxious about fertility (I am also 36 and anxious about fertility!).

So, we had a conversation yesterday where this ex came up and he said that she had asked him to commit to a timeline for having kids of a year, and he had said that if the relationship was in the right place then yes he would consider it. He said that they had talked at cross purposes and she had taken that as more of a commitment than it was - he felt that they needed to see how the relationship progressed first. He then described her being anxious and him feeling under pressure, and her getting very emotional a lot at what she saw as his lack of feeling. From his side, he felt he couldn't 'manufacture feelings'.

They broke up 11 months later - he said the final straw was when she said she was freezing her eggs, and he had said that he was supportive of that, and she took that to mean that he didn't care / didn't want to be involved. He said he just had no clue what a big deal it was and that she needed his support, and he would have been there for her more if she had told him how anxious it was making her.

That then led to me talking about the fact that I'm doing egg freezing and am also anxious about fertility, and that I didn't want to be with someone who doesn't want children. He said he does want them, but will also be okay if he doesn't have them, and that he doesn't feel the same pressure. But that if I have a timeline, that's okay and we should talk about it. I said two years, and he said that sounded like a good amount of time. However, Im now super anxious - what's the point in a timeline in a way - just puts pressure on the situation, and I don't want him to read this as he can just stay with me for two years and then let me go cus he's not 'quite ready'.

We also spoke about living together. He said he had never done this, and asked how you manage it, and I shared my experiences. He said it sounded pretty nice, and I think he is thinking about this for us soon. I am thinking about moving to Bristol and he has indicated he would be open to doing this too for instance.

He also admitted in this conversation that he has never 'loved' anyone. I think he only started having relationships in his 30s, and they've mostly been around a year long. Is this a giant red flag?

The thing is, I actually quite secure with him. He is not direct about it (yet), but I get the sense he sees a future with me. He's very physically affectionate, and even though he definitely has issues expressing verbal affection (I do a little but not to the same extent), I think it's clear he really likes me. He shows this through actions, and not words. I used to need words but the older I get the more I just want someone that will pull their weight and show they care.

But I don't want to be with him for a year and then discover he still hasn't developed love for me, and I can feel myself holding back because of this.

But then I wonder whether this 'love' thing is a bit of a misnomer - everyone has different ideas of what constitutes love, and mine has really changed over the past ten years. Used to think it was the butterflies stuff; now I feel like it's something that grows over time and that you build together. I have a feeling he is the same, and will be a slow grower, which on the one hand I am comfy with but then the needy, anxious part of me worries it will never happen and wants him to adore me NOW.

Sorry, this isn't very coherent. I guess I'm just weighing up whether this worth continuing.

38 and hasn't loved anyone. Has already potentially messed around someone who was 36 and anxious for kids. Should I just get out now?

Hi OP. I've been in a similar situation - was with a 38 year old "drifter" as PP described it until 2 months ago. He'd had lots of jobs, lots of homes - little stability. Told me he wanted kids someday but never specific about when. But it felt so relaxed and easy most of the time that I overlooked that.

We were long distance which didn't help but eventually I got sick of waiting for him to move up and putting my future on hold. Someone posted here that it's the actions you listen to - so true. I kept hearing he wanted to live together, wanted kids but I saw absolutely no evidence of it despite me initiating the conversation several times.

Anyway at 31 I'm now single and like you, jaded by the prospect of dating again but Im grateful I didn't waste any more of my life on "maybe" and "someday".

Now I've committed to myself if the next guy I date isn't 100% sure he wants the same as me it's see you later. We don't have time to waste on drifters! X

Sooooo many red flags OP.

He doesn’t sound like an awful psychopathic nightmare, but that’s clearly not the only bar.

He sounds like someone who is in no rush to commit - to you, to children, to setting down, to family life. He has made it really clear to you that none of that is a priority to him. That makes him fundamentally incompatible with you if those are things you want.

Relationships shouldn’t be this hard. People who want to be with you and have a future and a family with you will let you know without the need for timelines and future promises. He is making it clear at every turn that he doesn’t want those things - the best he can promise is that maybe, in two years, he might feel differently.

In all likelihood he won’t feel differently - and you’ll be 38, and starting from scratch trying to find someone who wants the same things as you.

It shouldn’t be this hard. The right person will not make you feel like you’re walking on a tightrope to the future you want.

He's a time waster - it's a controlling type of man who likes to have the power of running a woman's reproductive clock down then skipping out for someone younger when she hits menopause.

Don't allow him to waste your time.

I've never been in (requited) love and I'm 41. It's something that causes me massive, overwhelming sadness. The thought that someone might consider me non-parnter material because of it makes me even sadder.

So on its own I don't think it's a reason to question a relationship, however I think there are other issues going on here which suggest this person isn't right for you.

A few months of dating and how many threads have you got on this guy? At this point it should be easy, before boring life sets in. You have labelled him as "avoidant" in attachment style, be honest OP how long have you spent on online forums or psychology websites trying to understand his "type" and trying to interpret his actions as meaning his has some deep emotional ailment that only you can heal? How much weight are you giving to the smallest actions on his part and crafting it into a magical future only you can see, he seems to drift along alluding a future to various women but never actually following through, is this really what you want for yourself.

I think if you want kids enough to freeze your eggs, you should be dating someone who actively wants them, not someone who might perhaps eventually one day maybe want them but if not, that's okay.

I sense you would be heartbroken if you couldn't have children, whereas this guy isn't on that page, at all. Doesn't make him a bad person, just doesn't make him the one for you. You have very different priorities, and some are just non-negotiable.

I'd never been in love up to the age of 36, I'd been out with people who I really liked, had sex with them etc but I was never interested in finding 'the one' getting married and having children. I was however very upfront about it.
I don't think his age and never having been in love are a red flag but I think his dithering and indecision are.

I do agree with what others have said. I’m getting a bad vibe off of this and his lack of concrete answers. It’s all so vague. And also agree with what someone previously said about how his ex was really anxious but at the same time he didn’t realise how bad it was for her.

To the person who feels sad about not having been in love, me being wary about someone not having been in love would totally depend on the situation. If they seemed like someone who couldn’t connect or liked to keep people at a distance, that would put me off. But if someone seemed genuine but just hadn’t happened to meet someone, then that’s very different.

He is not direct about it (yet), but I get the sense he sees a future with me.

You're seeing or sensing what you want to sense.

You're 36, you want children.

If you stay with him you should make a solid plan now. to have children, alone, in 2 years time, when you realise he's been future faking you.

If you don't stay with him now, you have a chance of finding someone on the same page as you. You might not find that someone, but at least you're giving yourself the chance.

Basically what I'm saying is, if you stay with him now, you're definitely having children alone, or not having them at all.

Thanks everyone. There are some great comments here. I think he would say that from our chat yesterday he gave a clear 'yes' to having kids, but it is all a little bit unclear and in general I feel he's really floating along in life. I get the strong sense he likes my sense of direction and that I'm already building a life for myself, and that he thinks this would be nice to slot into, from things he's said and actions he's taken - he has definitely been trying to show me he would be a worthwhile person to share a life with in lots of practical ways, and it has really felt like we're a good team, in a way which I haven't really experienced before. Just simple things like division of chores; being considerate of me and my time; being chivalrous - not in an old-fashioned way, but a way that makes me feel cared for.

But I'm not sure that's solid enough for me. I think, as some of you say, that I should maybe be focusing on guys that share my priorities clearly and proudly. I always feel a little awkward about that and probably don't ask the right questions, early enough to not be already attached for it then to be more difficult than it needs to be (like this one),

Funnily enough, a guy texted today asking if I was still free for dating (we had been talking during lockdown). I said I was seeing someone, but experimented with asking him if he wanted kids, as I wouldn't be seeing anyone that didn't share that as a priority. He gave a very enthusiastic and clear yes, and made it obvious that me asking had actually made me MORE attractive to him. That felt refreshing and surprising - I don't know why I think it will put guys off to be asked that? And made me think....perhaps current guy is WAY too much trouble than he's worth, if I'm going to be feel anxious like this all the way through.

He just sounds very passive and meh and like you're going to have to drag him in the direction you want to go.

I was just like this guy, unsure of committing and having dc. Seemed a massive effort and manacles to me. So I went along not being that bothered. I get the feeling on MN and amongst my friends that it is usually the man that feels like this.

Anyway meeting DH at 31 changed all that. I had not especially wanted a marriage and children but meeting him changed my mind. I knew very soon he was the only one I could be bothered with.

How long have you been dating him?

You've given a timeline but he hasn't committed to it. You could find yourself at 38 with a partner who wont commit.

I think he sounds like he's playing a game. Even his version of events with the other woman makes me feel sorry for her, imagine her side of things.

Honestly, OP, you’ve been seeing a man who sounds like a passive, disengaged serial monogamist for only a few months (and as you don’t live together, presumably C-19 meant you didn’t physically spend time together for a good chunk of that) and you’re aLready pushing moving in together, and setting out a two year timeline to having children? Are you prepared to be the one who suggests, timetables and organises everything for Mr Passive?

This is not going to work, OP.

I know someone who sounds like your boyfriend. After seven years of LDR, his girlfriend, who wanted children and was getting older, proposed, he agreed (but refused to live together till after the wedding, citing his parents as an excuse — he was 35 and they lived in another country!), and they eventually had two children. He continued to be passive and disengaged from family life, and his wife carried the can for everything. Two years ago he said he wanted a divorce, because family life ‘didn’t suit him’ and he’d ‘felt railroaded’.

He sounds like a perpetual ditherer. He’ll say what you want to hear but isn’t quite ready to act.

However, from your last post, it sounds like your head has turned already. In which case, end this relationship. You’re clearly looking elsewhere.

He said that they had talked at cross purposes and she had taken that as more of a commitment than it was - he felt that they needed to see how the relationship progressed first.
Seems exactly what he is telling you. And thus what he will be telling his next gf.

DH and I on first date. Knew something special was happening. I was almost 30 and wanted more children (had 1 already). So I had to know immediately. Asked if he wanted children and he did very much.

12 years later and 2 more children here we are.

It pays to be upfront and see if on same page. Women aren't crazy/desperate to make babies. We're just not stupid realising there is a window of opportunity. Plus men do want kids too.

My DH was similar in being hard to pin down about having kids, as in he said he definitely wanted them but was very vague about when. The difference is that I was 26 when we met so I had time on my side. At your stage in life (and his!), you have to decide these things on a much shorter timescale. Friends I've had that have met in their mid 30s have all had the conversation about the future much earlier than I would have done as the decision needs to be made that much sooner.

Honestly, if you want there to be a future with the relationship you need to be making concrete plans like moving in together soon, in the knowledge that the ultimate goal is to start a family. If he gets cold feet about taking the next step, you probably need to cut your losses.

After just a few months, you seem to be rushing along too quickly with this man. Too fast for him to process things, and to determine what he really want's to properly do. He may,or may not want children, but says he might, just to keep you happy,if you talk about it quite often.

I commented on your last thread about his job prospects which I said didn’t really matter. I still don’t think they do if everything else is perfect

But what does matter is the question “Do you want children”
That is a definite yes or no.
I actually think he is wanting to live with you for a couple of years and then see how he feels and maybe move on.

He might love you and if he did he would realise the importance of your age on your fertility

I think he will eventually meet someone who will “accidentally” get pregnant (a couple of times) and force him to toe the line with regards to job and family life.
I do think Karma will catch up with him

I think he sounds really nice, really balanced and a quality man.
Love takes time to grow.
Let it grow.
(and don't let the bitter women on here talk you out of it).

A lot of men need a little push, actually.
if you're comfortable being proactive, then be proactive.
It sounds like he respects and likes you, talks to you seriously (without bullshitting you) and is a sweetheart. A man like that is actually pretty rare.

It really shouldn’t be this difficult.

By all means carry on dating him but see other men also for coffee dates. Don’t shut down all your options. I know a few guys who I could describe as similar to your guy. All in 40s still being avoidant and single.

Leave him
Or stay with him and post back 1year from now how he still doesnt love you.

Leave.