To hand my children over to their father?

[Montague01]

I’am tired, I cannot keep fighting him because he won’t work with me and plays dirty using the kids emotions. I’ve had front row seats for 7 years and I can’t watch any more. I’am so so tired. I wouldn’t even win against him in court so I might as well just hand them over and walk away.

I don’t want to do this anymore.

OP - I understand. I contemplated walking away from one of my children because my ex was obsessed with him and I thought he would leave me and the other two alone if I did. I just wanted him to stop.

There are no easy options but I am sure you wouldn’t live peacefully if he gets what he wants. He might remove himself physically from your life but your children would be forever on your mind.

Have you done the Freedom Programme? It would help if you haven’t. Revisit it if you have. There are aspects of it that I go back to when I need to. It helps.

Don’t add to the drama. Xmas is a day. You can celebrate it in July if you want to. I have lost count of the Mother’s Days I haven’t spent with my children. It really doesn’t bother me. We just do it a different day. If he can’t hurt you with this stuff, it loses it’s power and more importantly, he loses his power.

I don’t think you would lose in court but I don’t think he would win either. He is manipulative and at some level neglectful if he keeps losing one of the children but unless some harm comes to them in his care, you will struggle to get a court to stop contact. On the other hand, your children will be able to discuss with a CAFCASS Officer how they experience their time with their dad and that might be enough to restrict access or make it supervised. Your children will be aware of what is happening and how it makes them feel and may well articulate that well to a stranger. It is a gamble, however, and you need to be strong if you are going to represent yourself.

You may find a call to Women’s Aid helpful for advice and support. There is also a free legal helpline run by Rights of Women. Wikivorce is an excellent source of information on all things legal.

As a final thought, your children will judge you on your actions. They need one of their parents to put them first and bite their tongue. I found it easiest to generally let the ex mess me about with contact with a nod and smile. I put huge effort into having watertight childcare arrangements and just waving them off with a nod and smile. I would say from the age of 13, my eldest showed signs of understanding. At 16 he has a positive relationship with dad but he knows he can talk to me and knows we both see him for what he is. He is angry his dad sees him as an extension of me to be manipulated and lied to but he is grateful that he has worked that out for himself. He accepts his dad and laughs to me about all the inconsistencies and stupidity he demonstrates. I think this is how it should be - his dad is an idiot but me ramming it home would, potentially, have sent the children into his arms, Instead, they know where they are safe and which of us has genuinely made sacrifices.

It is hard. It is not how you planned your life would pan out. But you can live it and manage it and build your own life as well. Be kind to yourself, build your support systems and let that asshole go right over your head. It is possible and you can do it.

I have considered returning to counselling but the lady I saw for four years costs too much for me now and I can’t bring myself to go through building up trust with someone new.

I don't understand why you're having to pay full-price for counselling- have you had a carer's' assessment from the local authority?

I would also seek out subsidised counselling from your local carers' centre (it's usually means-tested on a sliding scale). It might be that the issues in the forefront of your mind are around exH and contact but ultimately, they're about the DC and your concerns that he's less competent in meeting their high needs. The fact you're having to support your DC in advocating for their MH with their DF again points to the additional pressure on you because of your DC's needs. I think it's perfectly reasonable to approach your local carer's centre and ask if you're eligible for their counselling service.

And I wouldn't focus on the effort of building up the relationship- if you get someone good, the benefits of counselling definitely outweigh any initial effort.

You can build support though and without him sticking his oar in -you might fine it better. For me the less contact I have the better. I have a court order -saying he can only text me when he doesn't have my son. I pull him up on it -all the time but I have a phone just for him and turn it off. Set times for the kids to talk to him. etc I have sent you a message.

Is there a reason you can't just move to the other end of the country?

Walking away from your children when you've never even been to court once to try and arrange proper access for them will ruin them.

You are so focused on not letting him "win" that you've made up something in your head to justify walking away. The problem is that it wouldn't happen, there is zero chance that he will become a better parent with you out of the picture.

We have never been to court

Sorry, I misunderstood from an earlier post.

In that case, and in light of the DC's additional needs, I would definitely be inclined to formalise your contact arrangements.

How long have you been apart and/or doing contact like this?

It's really important that the other parent understands a disabled DC's needs - my DC's DF is pretty fucking clueless generally and needs things spelling out to him - you do need a mechanism for communicating DC's evolving needs to exP if they're unable to do this themselves. For us, a communication book is no good as he wouldn't understand it and wouldn't even bother reading it. I'm very lucky in that he found another partner so he finally has a reason not to be an arsehole and at least maintain the impression of being a good parent now!

Just to add, it's not always just about face-to-face contact - my DC's DF regularly upsets them over text, etc too. It's never-ending but there's always a way through (and that's what MN's for!).

nc you don’t know him. My belief is based on what I do know and what I’ve seen him do. He knows I will go no where near court, but by pushing me to breaking point and wearing me out he gets to pick up the pieces and look like the hero. I’m convinced that’s what he’s doing. Then when all the focus was on him, he’d shape up. I’ve seen it before. Anything less than supervised contact ( which I know wouldn’t happen realistically and is a huge part of why I don’t want to go to court) is still going to leave where I’am now and picking up the pieces so yes to me, this would a win for him and a loss to me.

Contact is already EOW, the court wouldn’t change that. It won’t stop the manipulation and the leaving me to do everything and be responsible for everything and the one blamed for everything. Court won’t fix anything, just strengthen his position that he can do what he likes, when he likes and I have to comply.

There IS an end to this. The children are getting older and can make their own decisions about whether to see him or not - no court is going to force them at that stage. Then there is no need for you to speak to your ex, read his message, interact with him in any way - you can block him, ignore him, take the power back.

There's light. Don't give up.

by pushing me to breaking point and wearing me out he gets to pick up the pieces and look like the hero. I’m convinced that’s what he’s doing

But why let him?

It seems like you believe he's exploiting the fact you care about the DC and will do whatever it takes to support them by piling extra stress on you, and that your current answer is to prove him wrong by abandoning them.

Even if you did send them to live at his, you'd likely be seeing them EOW anyway in reality, and wouldn't it be even more frustrating watching from the sidelines with him winding you up the whole time? He'd just find other ways to play the same game.

Are you married to him?

How much of your frustration is about the imbalance you feel in terms of how unfair it is that he's been able to walk away from the responsibility and play Disney Dad EOW while you're a single parent dealing with three DC with high needs? I ask because this was/is a huge bone of contention for me.

You need a new counsellor. To have been with a counsellor for years and to still define your life and your boundaries around your ex, proves that your counsellor hasn't worked for you. Have you done the Freedom Programme? Have you looked at Relate online counselling?
You're venting here and it's fine but tbh it's also distressing. My friend's DSIS walked away, left her DCs with her abusive ex and started a new life. The impact of that was immeasurable on her DCs. They're now adults and only one of them has any type of relationship with her.
Your ex will not step up as a father if you give in. That's not what men like him do. Read 'Why Does He Do That?' if you haven't already. imo you're suffering under a real misapprehension about how much you matter to your ex and about how important your DCs are to him.

I would walk away completely, not have access. I couldn’t only see them EOW. I’ll be flamed for that, but I don’t have the energy to care anymore. There’s obviously far more than I’ve written here but no one has time to read that.

Still married. I couldn’t afford divorce on my own and he wasn’t fussed. Now he is getting married and is paying for the divorce. There’s no assets.

Longines You’re right. There is an imbalance. I’am tired, but I’m so angry and that anger has no where to go. I have no life of my own past raising his children and watching them suffer mentally at his hands. He took all my power and be,Kev in myself away years ago.

I haven’t seen my counsellor in 4 years, she helped at the time but a lot has gone on since then. She was very good with me.

I would definitely get in touch with women’s aid. They support women - and their children - who have ever been affected by domestic violence. In my area they also have a free drop in legal advice clinic. They were also able to refer me to free counselling.
I know court seems daunting, and yes, when I went through it it was a hellish experience. BUT having an agreement in black and white that we both had to stick to, it took a lot of heat out of our arguments. Take Christmas for example: he couldn’t spring it on you, because there would be an official ruling of who had which year.
I’m sorry that you’re feeling like this and I understand how it drags you down, but your children love and need you, and there is so much support out there.

imo you're suffering under a real misapprehension about how much you matter to your ex and about how important your DCs are to him

Yes, exactly - if you're correct, OP, and he is using the DC to 'break' you, then where would be the benefit to him to magically turn into a good dad once you're broken? They'll have served their purpose by then so who knows what would happen.

A good parent doesn't withhold their good parenting while they wait for an opportune moment to showcase it. He may be manipulative but he's not going to magically start caring about the DC and acting in their best interests if he's not doing that already.

If you really don't care about your children to the extent that you'd be happy leaving them with your ex, and you feel that he would be capable of taking care of them if you "let him win" then perhaps walking away from them would be the best course of action. You don't appear to be in the right headspace for parenting. I really hope you get the help you need, and that your children end up with someone who wants them.

Say thank you.

Right now, I’am not in the right headspace for parenting. I’m not coping, I’m the only one responsible, the only one fighting and doing and being and trying on a daily basis.

Maybe he’s the lesser of two evils.

Montague, you do need to find a way to go to court. You say contact is EOW (for him), but then he's just decided to change the Christmas arrangements. You need a clear court order with him regarding the contact arrangements for the children.

Your 12 yr old's views and feelings would be listened to.

It isn't about either you or the children's father 'winning'. It's about both of you doing what is in the best interests of the children.

It sounds as if you both need help to work out what that is.

Agree with PP who suggest trying a different counsellor. They are not all the same, and part of it is finding one who 'gets' you.

You should also go back to the GP and tell him/her what you have said on this thread. You do need help, but you need to ask for it, and keep asking.

Still married. I couldn’t afford divorce on my own and he wasn’t fussed. Now he is getting married and is paying for the divorce. There’s no assets

That's great news, OP (both that you're married and that he's extinguishing his claim to your future income/assets by remarrying).

Part of the divorce will be the financial settlement. He doesn't need this done to remarry, but provided you don't remarry, you can claim this at any point in the future, even after the divorce.

Do not sign a clean break order for the finances and don't agree to anything divorce-wise without taking legal advice.

I know you say there are no assets, but you're still entitled to maintenance (not just standard child maintenance as it depends on the circumstances).

Is he already paying additional child maintenance to support your DC's additional needs arising from their disability?

Presumably your disabled DC will need full-time care for life? He should be paying additional maintenance for a disabled child (depending on needs and their impact, etc) even when they're an adult as it's not fair that you're responsible for a disabled adult child forever and he gets to walk away from the marriage scott free.

@Montague01 you sound deeply, deeply depressed to me. I think you need to contact your GP and ask for urgent help. Potentially even take yourself to A&E, as psych referrals are so slow on the NHS and it doesn't sound like you have the money to go private.

Does he call you and harass you and argue with you everyday?

My ex only sees the kids every couple of weeks. Between that, we dont have much contact besides "ca I skype the kids at 7". I do all the parenting. Even on the day he has them, he iant actually parenting. No schoolwork, no shopping, washing, school lunches etc. I do it all. But its fine; it's just being a parent. You get on with it.
If he is making that impossible because he's arguing with you everyday then that's harassment. Call the police; start taking some action.

I cant help but notice the conflicting emotions coming from you.

On one hand, you want him to go away and have nothing to do with the kids. If he is to see them, you want it to be supervised.
Then on the other hand, you're saying you've had enough of doing all the parenting.

You cant have it both way. If he is making your time with the children impossible because he harassed you every day then take action. If he iant doing anything during your time with the kids then... isnt that what you want?

You sound like you're really struggling. You're in such a state that you cant even figure out what you want. This is the point were you need to seek help. Go to A&E and ask to speak to the crisis team. You need to get your head straight; get help.

Right now, I’am not in the right headspace for parenting. I’m not coping, I’m the only one responsible, the only one fighting and doing and being and trying on a daily basis

OP, if you don't mind my saying, I do wonder how much of your feeling that your stress is a direct result of your ex is actually general overwhelm at a shitty situation with no end in sight (which I do appreciate as I'm in a similar one).

Of course, if he wasn't the person he is, you might be parenting the DC in a happy two-parent family. And if he's a manipulative arsehole them it's natural to be angry with him.

But I wonder whether the full force of all your anger about everything (managing DC's needs, SEN education, local authority, CAMHS, all the usual shit we have to deal with, etc) is being directed at your ex as he represents the reason you're in this situation. It's completely understandable and I've been there. Counselling was my saviour.

IMO, you definitely need some space, and I would look into some short-term respite from the local authority to give you a break and a bit of space from your caring role, and also definitely push forward with counselling.

You say you're getting all the help available from the local authority but if that's the case, you wouldn't be feeling so overwhelmed. I would revisit your care package as it doesn't seem correct that they're adequately supporting you if you feel so unsupported on a day-to-day basis.

Honestly, I’ve checked, there is no help available in our case. My respite and chance to recoup is when they’re at their dads and I don’t even leave the house because I’m too busy sorting out stuff ready for when they get back.

You say you're getting all the help available from the local authority but if that's the case, you wouldn't be feeling so overwhelmed. I would revisit your care package as it doesn't seem correct that they're adequately supporting you if you feel so unsupported on a day-to-day basis.

have you ever fought for respite? You don't get anything. LA rather throw families with children with SN under a bus than helping or providing support - even beyond breaking point (I have been there - it is better not to battle for support as all of does is to drag you down further without ending up with help).

It's very much like you are depressed. Don't give up on your kids, they need you! Giving up may seem like the answer at the moment but in the long run will be the most painful option