To hand my children over to their father?

[Montague01]

I’am tired, I cannot keep fighting him because he won’t work with me and plays dirty using the kids emotions. I’ve had front row seats for 7 years and I can’t watch any more. I’am so so tired. I wouldn’t even win against him in court so I might as well just hand them over and walk away.

I don’t want to do this anymore.

It’s not that. It’s the excluding me when I’ve never excluded him.

He’s obviously not a kind man, and you’ve treated him better than he’s treated you but that is pretty normal for divorced parents.

You really need to stop thinking of him having xmas as him excluding you. It's entirely normal. Some couples can totally manage joint holidays with no problem and the children are kept happy, but you dont sound like those kind of exes.

Splitting xmas isnt excluding you.

As I said, focus on the very real problems he is causing. I'm guessing he has done a lot of bad stuff with the kids. Use that. Dont go on about xmas. You wont win by saying that's unfair.

For seven years he’s never had them for Xmas eve and the whole of Xmas day. It’s just not how it’s been, no matter how normal it might be for some people. Surely he can’t just unilaterally decide and give me no options.

Cross posted with you.

I just mean that you’ve got a certain amount of fight and there are some injustices that might be worth letting go to focus on the big picture.

As explained Xmas is just the straw that broke the camels back, but yes it is a big deal. I have no intention of going to court because I won’t win and that will be worse. I’ll hand them over and walk away before I do that.

Well, did you discuss and agree on xmas when you split? Agree that it would always be at yours but he was invited. Or is that what you told him would happen?
If he didnt have a choice, then it isnt an agreement. He is entitled to equal time with his kids, including special days.

However, if he is a shit dad (which it sounds like he is) then you really should try to have some sort of medication if you cant afford lawyers, but you really should seek legal advice.

I'm not disagreeing with you. He lost a kid with additional needs. That is so so dangerous. You are right to be worried about him being in sole charge of the kids, but you wont get anywhere unless you take some formal steps.

With xmas, I'm really just trying to give you some friendly advice. If you go into court and your big complaint is that he wanted them for xmas one year then you will be the one who looks controlling. So avoid that issue and focus on the really big ones, like how irresponsible he is.

It was agreed because he often worked his shifts over Christmas so never knew when he’d be around, so it was agreed around what he was working. He might be around Xmas eve but not Xmas day or vice versa. He wouldn’t change his work shifts and still doesn’t throughout the year.

Honestly OP, stop with the "I wont win so I will give them up".

These are your children. It isnt a competition and it isnt about you or about him. It's about the best interested of the children. There is no winning or losing between you and your ex. The only people who will lose is your children, certainly if you walk away.
Courts want what is best for the kids and they really arent fooled by manipulators. You sound like you have plenty evidence of him not being responsible. You might not force supervised contact but you may be able to limit his contact.

He has also had them for a few hours when he wasn’t working Xmas day afternoon. He hasn’t been denied anything, it just has never happened that he has them for the whole of Xmas eve and Xmas day and to be told that he’s already told the kids I agreed like it was arranged has just thrown me. Can we just leave it now because I realise Xmas isn’t the real issue.

I have no intention of going to court because I won’t win and that will be worse. I’ll hand them over and walk away before I do that.

Worse for who? Your children won’t want you to just give up on them.

I refuse to be dragged through the courts for him to win anyway. Which he will because on paper he’s perfect. I’ve suffered enough mentally at his hands and refuse to have all that played on a stage. If he is still allowed unsupervised access then he has won because I will worry every day that this time he makes a major mistake and I lose one of my children. I’am too tired after all this time to anything but want to run away. I know I’m unreasonable, I know I’d be wrong and I should fight for them but I just can’t anymore.

You're focussing on you winning or losing against him rather than what's in the best interests of your children. If he's as bad as you say he is why the hell would you willingly abandon your children to suffer living with him? Honestly all the "if I lose I'll give up my kids" makes you look childish and as bad as him.

Is he perfect "on paper" though, if he's losing your vulnerable kid pretty regularly? Can you reach out anywhere for support? GP, health visitor, DS charities or support groups, DV support services? You sound like you have (understandably) lost perspective after mental abuse. You need buoyed up.

I understand what you’re saying.
And I completely understand the feeling of being so tired of every little thing being a fight that you just don’t have the energy for it any more.

I understand the feeling of just wanting to hand the children over because after years of this, you are ground down and struggling to cope with it.

I’m also pretty sure I understand that you wouldn’t actually just hand your children over. You know that’s not what’s best for them. But that almost makes it worse in some ways - there’s no easy or good outcome here. Just a constant trudge and fight.

I absolutely know what you mean about their father manipulating them - he promises them something, sometimes completely unrealistic, and then you’re the bad guy who has to tell them it can’t happen. Either that, or it’s something he knows you’d never agree to, but now instead of telling him you don’t agree to it, you have to tell the children.

On a practical level - do you have any legal residency/access agreements? Have you been to court in the past?

Can you not understand that I just have no energy to continue? It’s about know that the courts would do what’s right and if they didn’t and he was allowed to continue I have no energy on my own to be the dam that protects my children. If he feels the courts will side with him he will ramp this up and know he’s safe. If that makes me childish and as bad as him so be it.

Elephant thank you so much. It’s it. Completely it. The fact there is no end to this.

I’ve been here, my ex is the same, awful awful man. I felt so weak next to him, I truly believed that he would take my children, he was/is a violent abusive drunk, yet his manipulation painted him in the most perfect picture.

You have to fight, you have to stand up to him and be strong, he knows you’re weak and he will abuse that! Do not invite him for Christmas, screw him, why would you give him access to your house! I was that kind understanding ex wife, always wanting to do the right thing for my children.
What my children actually needed was their Mom to grow some balls and stand up to this pig of a man, say no and keep saying no! Let him take you to court, the fact he has to manipulate and lie and actually lose one of the children makes me think he wouldn’t want them or cope with them. It’s all just scare tactics to manipulate you and keep you in your place.

Do not cave to this man! Your children need you and need your protection, be strong write everything down, get a case together.

Op even if you can’t afford legal help try rights of women or women’s aid for support.

Walking away really won’t make you feel better. You clearly adore your children

And yes he can’t really say he has the children for Xmas and tell them that. Do you have that in writing? If not try and get it.

Also speak to your GP about how you are feeling. You need support.
Don’t assume he will get his way. I think it’s most unlikely You are a nice reasonable person and you expect him to be nice and reasonable back. Court staff are used to the kind of stunts he is pulling. They will see through him. Have faith and keep going. You can do this

I think you feel negative about going to court, but as other posters have said, it would probably be a better outcome for you than you are envisaging.

However, going to court is a big matter, so how about trying something else too. Go to Mencap or other similar family-supporting charity and ask if they can help you to secure the services of a carer to help with outings for your child who has SEN. They might help you to secure direct payments for this, or augmented PIP , or they might have a register of volunteers. Sometimes Mencap gain funding for projects which involve placing volunteers with individuals who need a little more help to access activities. Sometimes, there are students who wish to augment their knowledge and practical experience through volunteering. If you could arrange a situation where a carer does things with DC, then you might be able to persuade your Ex to have their help too, to help supervise and prevent wandering off. That individual might be able manage some of the communication with your ex , so that it becomes more matter of fact and less toxic. If you were to gain support from a social worker, then they could help to set up regular, safe contact and make the communication less tit-for-tat and about exerting pressure.

Christmas is something you can accept. It seems to be reasonable to share, even if it hasn't previously happened. You can have traditional celebrations in the days following, and do something lovely with the kids for New Year.
Presumably, it will be your turn the following year. I know where you are coming from, but it will seem unfair if you don't share.

Fwiw, I think that the notion of family members losing children who have SEN is a very real problem. I don't believe that everybody has that inbuilt capacity to be always anticipating and responding to problems - however much they care. Eternal vigilance is a difficult skill to master especially within environments which are not safeguarded. I haven't been mother to a child who does not have SEN, so I don't know, but I presume that kids without SEN tend to reference what their carers are doing/ expect them to be doing at any one time, and it's easier to keep them safe. Certainly, I would hope that a charity support worker or social worker might be able to help you to express your concerns in a constructive and positive way and to draw a plan to represent the risk assessment and to say what can be done to minimise wandering off. It would seem very unreasonable on his part were your ex to refuse to read such an assessment and to contribute to it.

OP I have been here. Court isn’t about winning or losing. It’s about fair access and doing what’s in the best interests of the children. This is what it will look like:

You can self represent or use a ‘McKenzie friend’.These are people from an organisation who attend court with someone who does not have a lawyer to provide support and assistance. They are incredible and speak for you. My ex is an extremely wealthy and influential man but CAFCASS saw through him.

CAFCASS will interview you and ex and set up play conversations with your children to establish a picture of what’s gone on. Don’t prep your kids for this even though your ex will. It will come out in the report. CAFCASS can spot the discrepancies, concerns and contradictions in stories or ore rehearsed adult language.

You’ll need to write a statement. This was the hardest for me as I tried to lock away the abuse. Keep a diary or chronology of events that happened, things your children have said. Keep texts, emails and letters. All can build up a picture of abuse.

Your children are worth this fight. Running away will only make you feel worse and worthless. Please don’t give up.

It sounds like a nightmare situation but I am not sure how you leaving will solve anything. If you live your kids, walking away from them will not enable you to forget about them, you will just worry about them 100% of the time rather than currently just the time the time they are with their father surely?

I was in a similar situation and yes the court didn't think for a second he should only have supervised access. They simply didn't believe my account as it was pretty extreme despite the fact it was only the half of it. But EOW was all he got which as a pp said is far better then having them all the time. I only ever contact or reply regarding the dc and now dd is 10 she mostly does it herself on her phone. I do think I you need to accept he will get unsupervised and trust they will be ok. Chances are they will. Your 12 year old will keep an eye out for the younger ones. Walking away won't stop the worry.

Midnight, the arrangement you describe is already how things are here. It is not fair the eldest should have the responsibility of making sure her sibling isn’t lost.

Monague01 , have you read the advice given by Runnerduck, breatheinskipthegym, Rainbowqueen & Marypip?
Some of these posters have been through similar to you own circumstance, and they fought back. The courts can see through a manupulator. You are exhausted, that is quite clear, but have you told your ex that you are handing over the custody of the children solely to him? He sounds like such a pig, the idea of this might make him think twice, he will have all the responsibility, and nobody to try & manipulate except the poor kids. The grass is not greener on the other side, you will constantly think of, and worry about your children.
Please take the excellent advice offered by the named posters & try & fight back, sending best wishes for you and your family.

You need to get absolutely clear in your mind what you will allow and then what you won't.

Then with absolute confidence and conviction (clearly thinking through and explaining to the dc why each time) just say no that's not happening to the dc.

It's all about your confidence and conviction. The dc know you love them. They will trust you most as the parent they are with. They will take in your values. Your 12 year old is old enough to be able to think things through themselves.

You can do it. DON'T give up. Don't cave in. Sending you strength.