To hand my children over to their father?

[Montague01]

I’am tired, I cannot keep fighting him because he won’t work with me and plays dirty using the kids emotions. I’ve had front row seats for 7 years and I can’t watch any more. I’am so so tired. I wouldn’t even win against him in court so I might as well just hand them over and walk away.

I don’t want to do this anymore.

No it isn't fair at all I agree but it's a role they will automatically take on. My DD had to intervene when her dad went out and left them alone in the house with her little sister in the bath, she got her out and dried, she was 9 at the time. Lots of children even younger are carers to their parents, at least in this case it's only occasionally and not day in and day out as it wound be if they were with him permanently.

I understand you are angry and worried but he is their father and unless they are in danger should have unsupervised access, you also need to understand that it's normal to alternate Christmas Day, or split it (one gets Christmas Eve plus morning, the other gets afternoon and Boxing Day. Obviously loosing your 7 year old momentarily isn't good but kids can be manipulative too, is your eldest telling you what you want to hear, who hasn't lost track of their child for a minute or two? I honestly think mediation is a good idea, you need to talk with your ex about your fears for their safety and sort out these things. Stay in their lives and accept their dad will too.

I had years of a remarkably similar nightmare. At one point, I was ready to hand the children over too; I just couldn't take it any more. The never ending stream of lies that he spouted - to social services, NSPCC...anybody that he thought would listen. In the end, I took him to court to hammer out an agreement. He was very convincing. The thing that swung it was that my then 12 year old wrote a letter on cafcas' recommendation, giving her account of how things were and what she wanted. The court said at that age, her wishes couldn't be ignored. They didnt give what either of us wanted, but found a middle ground. Not ideal, but better than the situation we had.

Please dont think though that there is no end to this...there is. The kids are now 15 and 12 and totally see through his lies, and that will happen with yours too.

OP, I'm so sorry you are going through this. I didn't leave my XH until my children were teenagers, because I didn't want to run the risk of him having unsupervised access to them when they were younger.

Turin's advice is good.

I understand being tired yes. I left my ex as he raped me and nearly killed me by beating me with a wooden plank off a bed frame so I've been through it all. I however don't understand the process behind handing my children over to someone I know wouldn't look after them properly. Who will protect them then?

whilst I understand how exhausted you are and why you sound so defeated - you owe it to your DC.

I have 2 DC, one with severe learning difficulties so I 'get' what may be involved. I also have a messy separation behind me. But really, you cannot leave the DC with him.

I no the worry and threat of court is petrifying...the uncertainty of "losing" your children to someone who is only using them to score points can really take you to breaking point. Knowing what you want to do and knowing what is best for your children is so hard to put in place and see through because your confidence is shot, your tired and drained and everything is based on what if's. What if i get the courage and his lies are believed and no one sees through him. Sometimes it feels easier to give up as it feels like you are still in someway in control..allowing someone else to decide takes away that control and the thought of a stranger making decisions about your children is petrifying. Anyone that has been in your situation totally understands what you are going through and many of us have been there. I will tell you what my solicitor told me..."he will tell lies, he will make accusations..let him..courts see through it...the more allegations, the more he talks the bigger the hole he will dig". You have serious concerns about his ability to parent, he has lost your child more than once, your other children can verify this. You might think this will be mean nothing, this is major..focus on this...personally id be suspending contact for this reason..toss the ball in his court and let him decide that hes taken you to court for access because he wont "win" in the way you think...

Minnie a child with Down syndrome and no hazard perception isn’t safe on their own. Even for a minute or two.

We can’t do mediation because he was physical with me.

He will not discuss losing our child with me. I have tried.

Both siblings have separately told me of what had happened, both said the same thing so I believe their account to be true.

I havent read all the thread but from what ive seen your willing to hand your children over to a man that doesnt seem capable of keeping them safe just so you can have an easy life? I think you need to see a gp if im honest. Poor children

@Montague01

Because I’ll never get them to decide he should only have supervised access. He is too good at hiding his manipulation.

If you think he should only have supervised access for reasons of their welfare then for heaven's sake don't hand your children over to him.

If you are worried about your child with special needs then handing over your child full time makes no sense. This will only increase the pressure on the siblings and put your child at more risk. It is understandable to sometimes feel like giving up. I get that as I have my own unwinnable situation and I feel similarly at times. However, you need to give yourself time to wallow before you get on with things and continue to do your best for your kids. You can't control what he does but you can state your boundaries. Tell the kids that you and their father haven't made any decisions yet about Christmas but will let them know nearer the time what will be happening. If he says anything to you, tell him it will be discussed nearer the time and repeat as nauseam until he stops talking about it to you. Remind him each times he picks the kids up that the child with sen needs close supervision when out. Don't get involved in a row, just repeat this calmly and then shut the door. Your older kids obviously look out for their sibling. Encourage this and praise them for doing it. They shouldn't have to but an 11, 12 year old is more than capable of doing so.

And when the eldest isn’t there or is distracted herself. It’s not a solution, and puts her at risk of feeling to blame for anything going wrong.

For all those judging me can I explain.

It’s my belief that this is what he’s been waiting for, waiting for me to be worn down enough so I do give them to him. Then all these issues will just magically disappear. He has form for this, as I say he is incredibly devious and manipulative. He would then come into his own knowing that he’d got me out of the way.

So my feelings are based on my belief that he would do a good job after I’d been destroyed in the process. Not on me giving them to someone who wouldn’t look after them in the process.

I don't think you are thinking rationally.

There's no evidence for your belief, in fact, the evidence is he's pretty incompetent at looking after the children. Logically appearing crap to the courts doesn't seem like a good way to win your children f/t!

Also- you can't just disappear (unless you want to mess up your children forever in a way that is even worse than having a crap dad). You would have to negotiate access with him, already knowing he's unreasonable.

I understand the desire to run away and never look back, but it's not a realistic or desirable plan in this situation. Poor you, this is hard, but soon they will be older and able to decide for themselves if they even want access.

OP, the reason you need to not give up is because the DC are victims in all of this as much as you are.

Except they don't know they're victims as they have such a narrow frame of reference as children. They think their parents are right because it's all they've ever known. They need you more than ever now because they need someone to challenge the skewed views their DF might be giving them and to empower them to look outside of their parents for knowledge and opinions as they get older.

I know how fucking hard it is dealing with DC with disabilities as MH problems, but their difficulties would be increased exponentially if you give up on them and if they lose the stable home environment they have now.

Just because exH seems to see the DC as pawns to use to hurt you, it doesn't mean they are pawns, does it? If you give the DC up to him, you're effectively agreeing with him that the DC are assets to be possessed as opposed to children who need to be supported.

Do you have all the local authority support you're entitled to disability-wise? What is CAMHS doing to support DD?

She only had 3 sessions before being discharged, and now copes with support from me as her choice as she didn’t find them helpful. I set up meetings between her and her dad with me there so I could support her with discussing her issues and was very careful to maintain that I was there to help her and him see each other’s sides as there were points she was unreasonable on. This didn’t work, not because I was there ( he was the same when others tried to support her), but because he truly believes he can do no wrong.

We have all support necessary for her sibling.

This will sound harsh OP but you need to toughen up. Your rationale that he is messing with their safety to hurt you and will magically become a decent parent is irrelevant. The harm that you will do your kids by walking away will be irreparable. If he is as manipulative as you say, you would be doing your children harm by leaving them full time in his care. Never mind the harm in them seeing their mum give up on them. Get help for yourself whether that be medication to help you cope (I started on antidepressants - it helps me cope with all the shit in my life). If you can get counselling then that could also help. Alternatively lean on friends. But you need to stop allowing yourself to justify this course of action as it would not be good for your children.

@Montague01

I can’t afford legal help.

Yes you can. If he was abusive when you were together then you should be entitled to Legal Aid

Medication and 10 years of counselling hasn’t helped long term . My doctor agreed that medication wasn’t right for me, various kinds as none of them worked long term or I reacted to. I have considered returning to counselling but the lady I saw for four years costs too much for me now and I can’t bring myself to go through building up trust with someone new.

Yes you can. If he was abusive when you were together then you should be entitled to Legal Aid

it not as easy as saying he was abusive...

@Montague01 but you love your kids, They are all you have, and you are all they have. He will grow bored of them, or something worse.

Don't give up. Fight him. Try pro-bono help, try contacting organisations like Women's Aid and ask them for what else you can do. Do not give in to him. You will regret it.

This didn’t work, not because I was there ( he was the same when others tried to support her), but because he truly believes he can do no wrong

Thing is, OP, you can't make someone else be a good parent.

It would be great it he were a better dad, but he is who he is. If he doesn't want your help in supporting the DC or doesn't do what's in their best interests, you cannot make him do it (unless things get extreme and it becomes a police/SS matter, obviously, but even then, you personally don't have the power to control him).

The only control you have in this situation is damage limitation when the DC come home or get upset by him, and revisiting contact arrangements (if you feel something significant has changed since the last contact order).

In terms of withdrawing contact, do you have clear reasons for wanting to do this now over and above what has already been heard by the court, or is it more the frustration that the court didn't prioritise what you see as the risks? The fact DD has a MH crisis isn't an argument for withdrawing contact in itself, but his handling of it might be depending on what's actually happening. Are you taking notes of all the incidents?

As an aside - in the same way that you have no power over him and his parenting, he only has power over you if you give it to him. I say this as someone who has felt exactly the same way as you over the years - it's awful feeling completely powerless to protect your DC. But you can protect yourself from him and this will make you stronger.

How old are the DC? Do they want to go to contact?

Can you move away -far away?

We have never been to court.

Yorkshire

I have considered it but decided it wouldn’t be in DC’s best interests because of the support they get here from various sources.

Thinking of you OP. My sister went through similar. Her ex was awarded supervised access which after a while was changed to no access just letters on bday and xmas. He was abusive but was sneaky so seemed like a really nice guy. They see through him eventually.