AIBU to give money to the ladies who literally lie flat on their faces in the street?

[pa1oma]

I was wondering if I could ask people’s opinions on something please? ... In recent weeks / months when I’m out and about shopping, I’m seeing noticeably more of the (mainly Iranian, I think) ladies who lie on their face in the street, wailing and begging for money. For instance, in Kensington there was another one today and several down Champs Elysees as well as Hammersmith last week and it’s very distressing, but DH says not to give them anything because neither them or their children will see any of it. He says they are being put out their by a gang leader who uses these women and sends them out to beg because they are more likely to get money than a man who is begging. What do people think and do you give money to these women? I’m never sure what to do.

They are dropped off in vans at the beginning of the begging shift and collected at the end There is also someone who is watching them so they don't run away.
Some beggars work for themselves but many are just slaves. That's slavery.

There is also someone who is watching them so they don't run away.

I believe that☹️

I know someone else mentioned the Big Issue. Sadly I don’t buy that anymore

Yes, this business has been gradually taken over by those who aren't in need.

I don't know. I was also very much in the camp of give food nothing else and the quick assumption that they are all drugged up scammers.

Until I decided to leave exDH because he was abusive. Do you know how hard it can be to get genuine help. I am staying with family while I sort myself out but honestly it's touch and go and I can sometimes see a situation where I am so close to begging on the street.

Accounts frozen, left with little clothes (and mostly summer ones), charities that help require a referral from a social worker. Contacting social services results in a ton of unnecessary scrutiny. I was even asked to prove I was being given maternity pay, despite my previous income showing income corresponding to the weekly SMP pay, they need to confirm it is indeed SMP which results in weeks of waiting for background checks.

People are so worried they will be mugged off £1, they would rather people starve without the necessary documentation. I am fortunate I have family. I run a business despite being on unpaid maternity leave (so cannot pay myself as exDH has a stake and can veto).

Honestly the way things are going (i have money i have zero access too), I am probably two unfortunate incidents from being in their shoes with my kids in tow.

Do whatever you feel but maybe dont be too 1quick to dismiss everyone. Your choice though

No don’t give people on the street money. Take your money and give it to a good homeless charity, shelter, drugs centre, domestic abuse Center etc and your money will go directly to supporting people on the streets and in need.

Street begging can be lucrative and because of that it attracts gangs who guard their ‘spots’ and will not let anyone but who they put there beg for money. It was better with the Big Issue as money was going directly to that person and the spots they sold the papers were allocated by the office.

@genteelwoman unfortunately in many places esp big cities you would not be able to beg on the street as you will be spotted by a ‘begging gang’ and will be told to clear off aggressively.

This is why many charities and the police are asking people not to give money to people begging as it has become organized crime.

Near me they are all dropped of in a very nice car, take shoes off, hide any money given, pretend to be pregnant, spit at those who say no, the men make sexual comments to women going by, end of the day they all get picked up. The local police warn people about it too.

I’m in Sydney, I used to see on a regular basis on my way to work a woman approach people crying saying her bag was stolen & she needed money. The day she asked me I told her I’d already seen her doing this in the past. She was not happy! I’ve also offered to help people by saying I would call police to assist them. Not surprisingly they did not want that.

In regards to the babies as a pp said they do not use dolls. Sadly they are genuine babies and young toddlers who are drugged and as another poster said some of them do die and often the baby in the womans arms does not belong to her. Its dispicable and utterly shocking. As i pointed out before when i encountered one as a teen it was a genuine baby about a year old and ever since then I have worried the poor mite wasnt even alive anymore he was so cold when i pressed my hand to his face he didnt even flinch or eye flicker but he was very much real you could even see every little hair on his face every little eyebrow hair out of place. Haunts me over 10 years later when i found out from the police documentary these babies are drugged and its not uncommon at all. I would never fund these monsters.

I tend to donate to homeless charities as they are much more informed than me and can better identify the people who do need support. Pro tip: anyone wailing is unlikely to be real.

I could probably recite the tube script by heart. You know, the one about needing to get together money for a bed, where money and food is accepted (I bet the food is binned) and they walk though the carriages? (Often opening the doors between carriages rather than getting off and on at a station like a sensible person.)

Those gangs must be really suffering from the lack of footfall on the tube...

Sorry, but I actually don't agree with the majority of these comments. A bit of fucking compassion wouldn't go amiss either. Roma people suffer the worst levels of persecution on the continent, their children struggle to access education. Employment discrimination follows. Begging has worked for them elsewhere.. you see it on nearly every French high street.

This is how they choose to make their living. Guess it's easier to blame it on modern day slavery then look at how a state and collective view towards them might be pushing them down this path (historically, across multiple countries and in present day.)

Really don't see the issue with giving them a few quid now and then.

Yabu its a scam. I remember sitting in a cafe in soho with a friend and seeing the 'homeless' beggars and it you watch carefully you can usually see where the minder is, watching them.

I thought begging was illegal, but assume the police probably don't take on these gangs, presumably if deported they come straight back.

@TildaKauskumholm

I am already unwillingly giving to such people via my taxes which pay for their benefits, legal advice, housing and healthcare, so no.

So you think that everyone who lives on the streets has access to all of these things really easily?

The ignorance on here is crazy to me. Near where I am just outside of town there are various tents where people take themselves off to sleep. I hear about them passing away in cold winters.

Accessing some of these benefits isn’t easy. You don’t just turn up and get given money or a house because you’ve asked for it, it doesn’t work like that . A lot of people have no home and no money. They ask you for it because they need it to survive.

Anyone who thinks there are no genuine people struggling with homelessness and it’s all a big scam to cheat you out of a few quid really needs to educate themselves

Anyone who thinks there are no genuine people struggling with homelessness and it’s all a big scam to cheat you out of a few quid really needs to educate themselves

I don't think anyone on here has said there are no genuine people struggling with homelessness. In fact these people have been mentioned several times. There have also been posters saying that the genuine homeless are being forced out of areas by the gangs who are claiming certain places as their "pitches".

The people lying down on the pavement and wailing have been trained in what to do to get the most sympathy. The ones who aren't wailing are trained what to say to make the most money for the gang leaders.

@WeebleGirl

Sorry, but I actually don't agree with the majority of these comments. A bit of fucking compassion wouldn't go amiss either. Roma people suffer the worst levels of persecution on the continent, their children struggle to access education. Employment discrimination follows. Begging has worked for them elsewhere.. you see it on nearly every French high street.

This is how they choose to make their living. Guess it's easier to blame it on modern day slavery then look at how a state and collective view towards them might be pushing them down this path (historically, across multiple countries and in present day.)

Really don't see the issue with giving them a few quid now and then.

Agreed. It's a form of overt racism that is allowed to exist. People speak openly about hating Roma in a way they would never do about other races. They have been persecuted and seen as sub human for centuries. (See Holocaust.)

Someone said below that Roma belong to clans and have different professions. It's important to remember this. I work with some Roma families in schools and they work zero hours contract jobs. They live in very shitty housing conditions but they work. They are quite rightly very very mistrustful of authorities and very paranoid as they know exactly how they are seen.

Nope. Absolutely not. I give to charities (of my choice), but never anyone begging. Unfortunately you just don't know where your money is going to - drink, drugs, people traffickers? If I 100% knew someone was begging to put food on the table for them and their family as they were desperate, I’d give generously. In fact I’d probably take them to the shop and buy stuff for them. But unfortunately that’s mostly not the case.

@daisypond

There are charities for trafficked/street girls

I doubt it’s relevant. They won’t see themselves as trafficked, and I don’t think they are. I suspect they are not involved in prostitution at all, because of cultural reasons. Does anyone know if that’s the case?

Thank you, I understand a bit better thanks to reading the thread. I had previously heard gangs/trafficking and assumed that young women were tricked or sold into this kind of "work" rather than being born into it and it being a way of life. Very eye opening thread.

Heck no! Giving them money just perpetuates the problem. Year's ago I was in France and there were begging women there with very drugged looking babies and toddlers in their arms. Fuck. That. Noise.

Yes. I go to Lourdes in France every year and it's a very common sight. There is a warning given out, that they are fake and not to give any money. They are collected in vans at the end of the day

The Roma families I know are extremely protective of their daughters. They are very very conservative and girls need to remain 'pure.' I don't think these are the girls involved in cse but I could be wrong. There were cases of cse among Roma in govanhill reported fairly recently but the guardian put the reporting down to racism of course!

I definitely think there is a case of authorities not wanting to get involved with safeguarding in Roma community. They are very very closed and mistrustful and risk just disappearing, they are also held to different standards from the rest of us...

@fwwaftp actually quite a few posts suggest that homeless people or ‘beggars’ are just chancers and one or two posts have been downright rude towards those less fortunate. The post I quoted for example, suggests that there is no need to support anyone else as they are sponging off the government. That’s how it came across to me.
Any of us could fall on hard times at any point and it’s important to remember that!

@Pobblebonk

Satisfy my curiosity - were you in both Hammersmith and Champs Elysees last week, or is that a typo?

Not exactly impossible is it?

We have had a guy in our town for about 10 years selling the big issue. I never really thought much about it. I got him coffee once on a freezing day and he didn’t want it. Fair enough.

Turns out he wasn’t legit big issue seller. He’d sit in a sleeping bag to make himself look more ‘homeless?’ Didn’t have the ID or tabard- actually he did have a fake badge once with the name of the town spelt wrong.

Anyway I never really paid him much mind - he was part of the fixture of the town but looking back he was just a scammer. Glad he’s gone.

Make donations to night shelters or homeless units. It gets to the right people. There are plenty of them. Mens shoes and coats always needed.

My church does a hot meal most days which is well attended by homeless and vulnerable alike. We also “adopted” a Lithuanian woman off the street. Somebody got her a job at Travelodge as a cleaner. Now that was modern day slavery. She was paid one hour minimum rate to clean staircases and everything else was “piece work” rate I.e. she was paid £1.49 to clean a room and change bedding. However she was happy to have a regular job and feel normal so didn’t report it to the authorities. I always leave large tip for cleaner now if I stay in a hotel.

Satisfy my curiosity - were you in both Hammersmith and Champs Elysees last week, or is that a typo?

Not exactly impossible is it?

Where did I suggest it was, @pollylocketpickedapocket?