AIBU to give money to the ladies who literally lie flat on their faces in the street?

[pa1oma]

I was wondering if I could ask people’s opinions on something please? ... In recent weeks / months when I’m out and about shopping, I’m seeing noticeably more of the (mainly Iranian, I think) ladies who lie on their face in the street, wailing and begging for money. For instance, in Kensington there was another one today and several down Champs Elysees as well as Hammersmith last week and it’s very distressing, but DH says not to give them anything because neither them or their children will see any of it. He says they are being put out their by a gang leader who uses these women and sends them out to beg because they are more likely to get money than a man who is begging. What do people think and do you give money to these women? I’m never sure what to do.

Local authorities implemented emergency accommodation for street homeless because of covid.
Maybe that is where your familiar beggars went

@Yoloyohol do you know anything about the lady outside the COOP in Crouch End? I think she might be pregnant. And the older lady outside the Caffè Nero in Highgate?

[quote Isfiftythreeok]@SandieCheeks no need for the sarcastic reply. At the time I saw these beggars I was a single mum on benefits, so yes, if I had done the same with my children they would have been taken into care.

Not entirely sure of the availability of benefits for them at the time - ie I don't know if they were claiming but would think that they wouldn't have passed up the chance to claim if they were entitled, it was certainly easier to claim then rather than now - as I said it was nearly twenty years ago, so was just pointing out that things hadn't changed and if its not it should be an offense to beg with children.[/quote]
I wasn't being sarcastic at all - I genuinely think it's awful that there are benefits and social services available to some people and not others It's a disgrace that those children aren't getting the same care and consideration as British children.

We get this in my town in Greater London. Really exaggerated performances such as women with hunchbacks, women with massive crucifixes with their faces on the ground, women crying and wailing, women with dirt smeared on their faces, girls who come up to you and say they're starving and pregnant. I have seen men doing it too, but it's mostly women. I realised all these people were connected when they all had identical laminated signs saying "I'm starving".

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

I have no difficulty believing beggars are controlled by gangs.

However, the people who always turn up on these threads banging on about the time they saw a beggar driving off in his solid gold stretch limo... Really? I mean, really? If begging is so cushy and lucrative, why don't you do it? I'll tell you why - because you only need half a brain to realise it's a fucking horrible existence. We've all seen beggars sitting there with crowds of people sweeping past without looking. Getting harangued by DM-readers who think they're all minted. Getting attacked and/or pissed on by lads out drinking, for a laugh. Right now, hardly anyone even has change! I don't care what you claim to have seen; none of these people are in a good place.

I hate the Daily mail, I'm not Tory and yet I've seen it. A regular beggar in filthy clothes. I watched him get into his new Audi one day in the back of the town multi story car park. And every single person begging for a few bob for a sandwich or a cup of tea has never ever, ever accepted any food or cups of tea offered by me and has demanded money instead. A man local to us makes his living from begging and does really well (he's good friends with our friends). He has a council flat, a missus and kids and earns £100+ a day as it only takes twenty people to hand the poor unfortunate soul a fiver each.

It's so heartbreaking that they use babies. Sadly many are drugged on heroin and so some do die. It's just unbearable.

I saw a lady begging with a drugged toddler on holiday several years back. It ruined that holiday and I still pray for that little girl to be safe and loved. No doubt futile.

Give money to shelter if you feel the need

I think they use baby born dolls. Or equivalents,

To use their vulnerable live babies is beyond belief.

They have babies,not necessarily their own

If you watch 60 days on the streets on Channel 4 player, episode 2 is set in London. It was a real eye opener with many people who are begging not homeless at all.

The last time I was in Paris (a couple of years ago) it started on the train from the airport - musicians playing on the train and asking for money, and the beggars as well. Even more of them when you were walking around Paris. I have seen them in London too, but I don't give them any money.

What IS the best thing to do ...what even is the best outcome?

Why would you think these women are Iranian? They are not. These women are likely Roma beggars.

They are trained how to beg, how to dress and what to say depending on where they are. You can give them food and money but it will never be enough.

They are basically a part of a gang, the women and children are maimed and exploited and they do not get to keep the money they earn. They are dropped off in vans at the beginning of the begging shift and collected at the end. Children do not go to school, they beg instead.

We have a huge problem with them in the Balkans, I grew up around this type of behaviour.

I would never give them money.

Best thing.do NOT give any money.
Best outcome,depends on the individual but in general cessation of ASB and safeguarding vulnerable adults and children. Support and direct away from OCG

@PatriciaPerch

I'm a bit confused by the terminology used, so could you explain? I live in the East of England we have a lot of Roma gypsy families locally to me and they work hard and certainly don't beg and they provide a lot of chairty to the local food banks. What does 'roma' mean here? there are unfortunately professional beggars everywhere now but it wouldn't have been so bad if the homeless crisis was dealt with properly 10 years ago rather than in March. Presumably you didn't all ignore that too?

Romanian gypsies belong to clans...some work with animals, others grow vegetables, some scrap metal, others integrate into normal society etc..the ones who beg are from a village called Tanderei or from Bucharest sector 5 area. All explained by my Romanian friends..two are gypsies but are engineers working here for a UK company.

@enchantedspleen

Heck no! Giving them money just perpetuates the problem. Year's ago I was in France and there were begging women there with very drugged looking babies and toddlers in their arms. Fuck. That. Noise.

This happened to me as well in France last year summer.

They wear chadors in some areas but are part of Roma gangs. Don’t give them any money- it just perpetuates human trafficking

There's a beggar in my town who has no shoes. A friend and I once asked the charity shop he sits outside if we could put £20 behind the till for him to buy some warm clothes and shoes. They said we could but everytime he is given shoes he wears them whilst the giver is in sight then bins them once they are out of view.

Another guy used to beg outside the multistory carpark in my home town and he owned a flat behind my house.

user127819 in Greater London they wear massive crucifixes, but in Sarajevo for example where most people are Muslim and the area is heavily visited by Muslim tourists, the beggars wear full hijab/long dress, only to remove it all at the end of their begging shift. They are quite creative when it comes to pretending. Poor tourists, they do not know this is all an act.

Back in the 1980s when I was a student in a large UK city I used to live on a tough housing estate. People used to beg outside the opera house for a few hours to catch the "long frocks" brigade and then come into the local shops with their pockets filled with one pound coins. They all had council flats on the estate for which the rent was paid by DSS. These were not organized foreign gangs but canny local people.

Satisfy my curiosity - were you in both Hammersmith and Champs Elysees last week, or is that a typo?

I know someone else mentioned the Big Issue. Sadly I don’t buy that anymore. The One good pitch in town is taken by the same person who has been there for years and years No chance for anyone else to get a look in. I’m sure when it started it was meant to be a step up, not a long term monopoly.
I was on one of the village buses one day and they were full of non-English speaking Big Issue sellers being dropped in tiny villages (kinda places with one shop). I can’t imagine they sell many or any at all. Seems badly run and unfair.

The thing is, and I’m sure I’ll be called out for some kind of discrimination or whatnot on this, the Roma lifestyle is very much based on a begging/opportunistic way of life. This is the case whichever country. Roma are, generally, transient people. It’s a way of life for them.

Champs Elysees in London?