to wish that pushy parents would stop pretending to be religious in order to get a place for Lily at the faith school?

[Caroline1852]

If these schools are "better" it is because parents are clamouring for places, thereby artificially raising the standards. Left to their own, the number of faith schools would dwindle dramatically. There are nearly 5,000 C of E schools, most of them oversubscribed, yet bottoms on church pews are falling (save for a lot of red-faced couples and their 10 year olds). I have nothing against faith schools by the way.
Grrrr it's that time of year again!

If my child had special needs I would expect her to have access to these facilities.

Religious schools don't increase choice. They reduce choice. I do not have access to any local schools for my child. I don't see any choice in that.

Yep - no need for conversion CD.

oh and obviously, if she needs to go to a Young Offenders Institute...

Of course, it is in the interests of the schools that 'pushy parents' try hard to get in....and probably accounts for at least some of their success. If you are prepared to fake religion, you are probably going to make sure your children do well in the education system. Same with over-subscribed community schools and house prices - the whole thing becomes ever more self-perpetuating.

BarryScott - I live in Lambeth on the borders of Brixton - heartland of bad schools reputation, and actually the majority of primary schools are delightful places with no violent crime at all - and are improving way beyond the national average!

blu, we're in peckham. not the nice dulwich end either.
sadly some of the schools round here aren't up to scratch. not all, but my local four are shockers. it's not the academic side that bothers me, but the truancy and violence.

right, this pushy parent is off to teach her preschooler how to compose haikus.
in japanese.

Choice is still increased even if not to everyone.
I hate it when people say "I am paying for that school". Whatever. What about consciously childless couples, should they complain about the provision of all education because they are not able to use it?

How is my choice increased? All my local schools are faith schools. They are all selective on grounds of faith. I do not have access to them. I have no choice whatsoever.

Nice try at citing communitarian arguments but it just won't wash. I am a very happy taxpayer when it comes to services that I don't use. I am not happy to pay for services that I should be able to use but cannot. Local schools are one such example.

I'm not pushy but I love my children, want the best for them and unfortunately our excellent village school is a faith school so we started attending church. Don't really give a crap what anyone thinks. I've done the best thing for my child and would do it again in a flash.

I have a Lily and I did this. Shoot me.

But the no-choice argument works both ways: suppose I want a catholic school, but my local schools are all bad and/or non-faith, and my nearest catholic school is 15 miles away: how is my choice increased, I wonder.

Margoandjerry - I used to live in the Highlands of Scotland and the primary school was an hour round trip for us. In my son's first class there were two other children, both boys called Callum .
What do you mean "I do not have access to any local schools for my child"?

bonitamia - but I am sure you do not resent others being pleased that they have exactly what they want from a school in their town - be it faith or other?
I have nothing against faith schools at all. I would not want one for my children but if others want it, I am pleased that they get what they want. It is just a school and costs the state the same.
I don't really like the middle-class pretending to be a christian though. I understand why they do it. But once Morrisby (too many Lily mums on here) has his place, why don't you all come clean and stop pretending?

Caroline - is it the middle-class "pretending to be Christian" that you don't like, or the middle-class "pretending to believe in God"?

I am Christian but I don't believe in God.

What I mean is, all the schools within reach of us are faith schools and they all select on the grounds of faith.

The nearest non faith schools are in a different borough and therefore not accessible to me.

Anna - just the pretending really.

Actually (and I'm going to say something that might displease quite a lot of people ), I have no problem whatsoever with Christians pretending to believe in God to get their children into a faith school, if that school is the best academic option available for their children.

However, I do have a few problems with parents who really do believe in God .

margoandjerry - How far away is the nearest school that is available to you (non faith in the correct borough etc)? Is this primary we are talking about?

Anna8888, in what sense are you a Christian, if you're also an atheist? (just asking) And is your problem with theist parents just the theism, or something else?

I think the choice of 'Lily' was subconciously chosen because the faith school system has the side effect of keeping our village school - on the edge of a multicultural town - lily white.

Possibly.

Anyhow... I blame the system not the parents. Though I did get a bit irritated when a neighbour pouted "well I'm a good person, I believe in God" ... like (a) those two things had anything to do with each other and (b) That defined Christian. I used to be one and as far as I can remember christians are redeemed sinners

Is Anna888 the bishop of Oxford in disguise?

Caroline, that's precisely my point. I don't resent other people being lucky enough to have a perfect school (whatever that means for each one of us) down the road.
And I don't really care much about people pretending to be religious to get their children in a faith school, as long as they don't push for making it non-faith in practice.
If they think it's worth pretending, that's up to them. When their daughter comes home one day saying she wants to be a nun and join the missionaries in Africa, they may regret it though..