to wish that pushy parents would stop pretending to be religious in order to get a place for Lily at the faith school?

[Caroline1852]

If these schools are "better" it is because parents are clamouring for places, thereby artificially raising the standards. Left to their own, the number of faith schools would dwindle dramatically. There are nearly 5,000 C of E schools, most of them oversubscribed, yet bottoms on church pews are falling (save for a lot of red-faced couples and their 10 year olds). I have nothing against faith schools by the way.
Grrrr it's that time of year again!

Frankly, I support anything that parents do to get the best possible education for their child.

Pretending to believe in God seems to be a very minor midemeanour in the big scheme of things, and less of a crime than sending your child to a sink school if there was any possible way of avoiding it.

They choose by ballot?

Blimey.

Who reads out the results - a Returning (From The Dead) Officer?

Sorry, that was cheap.

YANBU - it irritates me to think that all the bleddy yummy mummies who've bought their way into the road next to the school and run into our church 5 mins before communion with little Melchizedek (hope to goodness no-one's actually got one of those!) and then leg it immediately afterwards just so the priest knows their faces, might get a place in our local catholic school ahead of dd, whose parents aren't pushy and live on the edge of the area but ARE regularly attending 'proper' Catholics!

Rant over...

No they don't choose by ballot you have to fill in your details sign and then post it into a box. Then I assume they have a register of regular attenders and tick off those who have completed the form that week so they know who attends. I think the colour of the form changes every week so you can't do them and get someone else to post it or claim it blew away or something.

And my two sons are called Toby and Melchizedek.

And my dog is called ballot

sniff

fair enough F&Z but you have to giggle at Tarquin surely?

Melchizadek? Melchizadek .. Sue? you jest surely?

I'll do whatever it takes to keep DD out of the local sink school. The local church school receives state funding so I really don't think anyone should be excluded from it.

I know that this makes me a) a hypocrite
and b) quite possibly offensive to others.

but I really don't want DD going to Knife Wound and Truant County Primary. No-one's kids should have to. All local schools should be good enough. But they are not .

"I'll do whatever it takes to keep DD out of the local sink school."

Good for you ImBarryScott .

Totally agree with I'mBarryScott

twiggaletto, of course I jest. My son isn't called Melchizedek. His name is Elijah, the prophet of the Lord.

I sympathise where there is Hobson's choice. Where I live there are three truly fantastic state high schools. One is a faith school the other two comps. They all beat a lot of the independents in terms of exam results. There is no water between them in terms of results. However, at this time of year there is the annual fight for places at the Christian ethos school. I have come to the conclusion that parents like it because the girls play lacrosse and the boys wear tweed blazers; there can be no other reason. Clearly some of the people attending are truly religious, most are not and they are truly ghastly as it is not as if they have no choice but to fib.

I got really narked when my SIL accused me of doing just that! It was at that point I told her I was training to be a minister, and that while I'd do a lot for my children, I think that would be taking it a bit far!

Oh, and I BACK state funding for faith schools!

Yes, becoming a vicar would be pushing it a bit far

I back state-funding for non-selecting faith schools.

What would a non-selecting faith school do Suebaroo?

Have a daily act of worship and a faith "culture" but not have any faith-related criteria in its admission policy?

With the aim of introducing the religion by stealth to unbelievers?...

UQD, no not at all, any more than any religious believers of a proselytyzing faith do already

I went to a C of E village Primary. The religious content consisted of me learning 'When a knight won his spurs'.

The motivation of the school was to provide an education for local children because of the religious views of those providing the education, not based on the religious views of the children or their parents.

So, essentially, the reason the school existed was because christian people had thought it part of their religious belief to provide a basic academic education to all.

I think YANBU- i ahte the hypocrisy of it! My sister is doing just that. Now many aprents really sit on the faith borderline- hence so amny agnostics in the world- but my Sister hates religion, gave me serious abuse whenever I ahd mine Baptised, blames it for all of societies ills.... and pretends once a week to get into a certain school.

The ones who are mildly religious or who want the ethos I don't see as much as a problem... Church attendance isn't essential to the faith, you can be a Believer and an absentee... but poelpe like my Sis make my hackles rise!

Oh our Church school- exceedinglyr eligious, prayers 5 X a day, scripture exams age 5.... doesn't select by Church attendance. It's nto a factor at all. Siblings, where you live- that's all the Governors (who have sole discretion over palces) take into consideration.... the rest of the palces go to those who can blag or whatever they do (wouldn't know, we're in catchment, though it took A LOT of persuasion to get a Sn child admitted....)

Why are faith schools better? If it was because standards are artificially raised by everyone clamouring for a place, then how did the situation come about in the first place? And how many people who say 'hypocrite' didn't marry in a church?

Well, schools people actively want to get into are generally better than schools people are not bothered about or actively don't want to go to.

That's true whether faith is in the equation or not.

The problem is the lack of places at the schools people want to go to. Or perhaps it's the lower standards of the other schools. Or perhaps it's just the imbalance in the distribution of the "raw material" - i.e the kids.

me, I married in a hotel. I am not a hypocrite. It was a lovely day thank you.

The boys were baptised before I lost my afith awhile- ds3 was named for the same reason.

Faith schools aren't alwyas good, but many have a rep for being so. In relaity 'good' is a useless term- academically brilliant, decent level of pastoral care, range of extar curricualr options / wrapa round care... they all contribute to what makes a school. In differing amounts.

We need to find ways to encourage the parents to consider other schoosl they migt not originally- eg the non-Church school that is next closest to us is a wonderfully friendly, kind place (with not far different results than the Church school and a better Estyn report) but because its in the Council area, it gets overlooked. That school (would have loved mine to go there but geographically impossible) is under sunscribed, the Church one massively over subscribed.

Going to church in order to get into a faith school is not an easy option. It is very time consuming and boring if you don't believe in it. I think that the fact that these people are willing to go to all that effort for their children's education means that it will raise the standard in the school.

We used to do it to get into the best school in our area. There were lots of nice people at the church, but I think at least half of them were there for the school (there were a lot of preschool children there).

We've moved house and our children go to a non-denominational local school now (hurrah!). It's great to have our Sundays back.

I don't understand why some people try so hard to get their child into a faith school and then as soon as they are in, start complaining about their child having to go to mass, or join in other religious activities.
Well durr what did they think happened at a faith school!

Peachy - what is an Estyn report?