AIBU to be at wits end with disabled neighbour?

[Enderwits]

Fully expecting to get flamed but wanted to see what others think.

So as not to drip feed - myself and youngest ds have diagnosed autism. And I worked as a support worker for nearly ten years so do understand both sides and that she can’t really help it. That being said...

I am at my wits end. Our neighbour is a disabled lady who needs 24 hour care, more supervision really as she is fairly mobile and will help hang the washing out etc.

We have always been polite and spoken to her when seeing her out/in the garden etc. Most of the time she is quite friendly.

However her behaviour is deteriorating rapidly. She is now attacking staff, often in the garden (have heard them crying on the phone after being assaulted) and has started to scream and bang loudly on windows/shared walls/cars and shouting ‘fuck off’ far more frequently. As an example, the last two mornings we have been woken up at 4am with this. My youngest ds has autism and is extremely distressed when this happens.

She is also now doing it throughout the day. As you can imagine we don’t really want to have to keep all doors/windows closed for hours in this heat.

She has now started to scream ‘fuck off next door neighbour’ when my children/we are in the garden. We had to leave the paddling pool this morning due to it and my ds has been shaking and upset for the last two hours she won’t stop screaming and banging her windows.

I’m writing this as she is packing the car so we can bugger off for the day.

Over the last few months I’ve tried to just calm the dc with ‘come inside, ‘X’ is just a bit upset’ and do understand that I can’t exactly complain as she can’t really help it.

WIBU to have a chat with the manager when I next see her and just explain how much this is upsetting ds? When I was a support worker a gentleman I worked for ended up in a secure facility after deteriorating in what seems to be the same way (he threw a fire extinguisher at my head and ripped someone’s hair out).

She agrees with me, but DM says I shouldn’t say anything as one day that could be ds (though I think I’d agree if he was doing that then he probably was in the wrong setting).

AIBU?

The manager won't be able to do anything to make her quiet. If she's causing a disturbance ring the police. Once the manager has an audit trail of proof of unsociable behaviour then she will be able to apply for her to go into residential care which is what she needs by the sounds of it.

Rather than carers, I would phone up social work and flag this up with them. And also call the police if she gets aggressive etc - they can make vulnerable person referrals and sometimes it can take quite a few of these to get much action (stepped upon support for her).

It is unclear this is permanent state, though- the lady may have an untreated UTI or some reason why she has suddenly become like this if she wasn't before- that's why you need to report to adult care SS, if you knew her dr, also could be helpful.

If she has carers she is very likely to be know to adult social services. ]

Sounds like they need to be informed of the deterioration in her condition and the impact on her neighbours so that they can put in more appropriate support. Call the adult social care team and discuss. This isn't getting her in trouble, but getting her the support she needs.

I would report every single incident to her care provider, social services and 101 if the incidents are directly abusive to you and/or the kids. I’d encourage your neighbours to do the same. Hopefully they move her soon, must be so awful.

Address the situation frankly. You know as a former SW to direct your issues directly to a person BUT you're not sure in this case. If the behaviour is becoming anti social her support is not working out. A note might be appropriate in this case if you're not confident to face to face. Obviously asking the support staff is difficult as they're obliged to not share her situation.

It might be best to approach the council I know a formal complaint seems a big step but if you feel saying "neighbour your language is a problem for us" wouldn't work then you really have skip stage 1. Go to the council. The report might trigger a reassessment and shine a light on what is going on.

Your kids should be able to use their own paddling pool on a day like this. She might not be able to help it, but regardless, she is causing a problem. I would definitely talk to her manager. In the interim, Could you move your paddling pool a bit further away from her boundary? Screen it with windbreakers so that your children feel safer and play some quiet music to help calm/distract them?

Horrible situation for both you and your neighbour. As a side note just because you don't own the low fence between your homes doesn't mean you can't put up your own high fence next to it on your own land

*Social services will do absolutely everything they can to avoid placing anybody in residential care. They will say it's in the best interest of the client but really it's because the places do not exist because they cannot afford to pay for them. You have to be extremely rich to afford to pay for this privately (minimum £5,000 per month).

Sorry OP, this doesn't help you I am just frustrated by how often I read people on MN talk about 'putting' people in residential care. Even when it absolutely would be the best thing for everyone concerned it is incredibly hard to arrange this unless you have the agreement of the person concerned and you are super rich.*

ITA. IMO, some posters are being naive about residential care. First of all, the LA should do an assessment of NDN's capacity. If she still has capacity (and lots of people have anti-social behaviour with capacity), then they cannot just "put her in residential care", unless she agrees. Its in a contravention of her human rights, and right to a private and family life in her community. We are not living in the 19th century, when single pregnant women, inconvenient wives, etc could just be put in asylums.

If she does not have capacity, then they can put her in a residential care home if its in her best interests; but its not a magic wand that can cure challenging behaviour (unless it has a simple explanation like an UTI). People with challenging behaviour just carry on assaulting the residential care workers, rather than the community care workers.

DD has challenging behaviour and learning disabilities - she has been in the most specialist residential care; and is deemed to need 1:1 care. There are people in those homes who need 2:1, 3:1 or 4:1 care - because even the onsite teams of clinical psychologists, educational psychologists, consultant psychiatrists, mental health nurses, speech therapists, OTs, etc cannot cure the challenging behaviour.

Actually, DD's behaviour is better with us than residential care workers, because we understand her better than anybody else - however. as for swearing, we must have told her a million times in the last 8 years not to swear; and careworkers must have told her a million times not to swear; and its not made a blind bit of difference to DD. What sanctions do posters think work against an adult, with learning disabilities, who ignores what you say; does not care about money (which they don't really understand anyway), does not care about the judicial system (which is also meaningless to them) and does not understand star charts?

It is easier to get blood out of a stone, than get a LA to fund that kind of care. Actually, someone living in their own home is cheaper, because they may get housing benefit, ESA or a pension, and PIP, which go towards their living costs. Once in residential care, the LA has to pay all the costs of the residential care - which can be £250,000 or £350,000 pa upwards. The service user won't get housing benefit or PIP; once in residential care, although the LA can take all their pension or ESA and leave them about £26 per week for toiletries, clothes, etc - but that is a drop in the ocean against £250,000 pa!

By all means OP, raise safeguarding concerns, if you wish to protect DS; but don't think NDN's challenging behaviour is necessarily just down to unmet needs, which would all disappear in residential care.

As the child of someone with severe MH and PH challenges. Calling the police may be the best thing you can do as it will possibly get her the help she needs faster as they will put pressure on social services to actually do something about it. At the moment she's dangerous and I don't say that lightly.

@Enderwits nothing to add that hasn't been said, but if the situation is made worse for you by the fact that NDN can see into your garden, and it may take a while before this situation is resolved in a way that gives you more peace and quiet, you could put up a higher fence inside the NDN's fence as long as it is not touching or damaging it. I appreciate that's a cost you may not be able to or prefer not to have, but it would at least aid in your privacy.

Does she get 24hr care atm or is she left alone overnight?

Surely residential care would be cheaper than 24hr care at home?

@DarkMintChocolate

*Social services will do absolutely everything they can to avoid placing anybody in residential care. They will say it's in the best interest of the client but really it's because the places do not exist because they cannot afford to pay for them. You have to be extremely rich to afford to pay for this privately (minimum £5,000 per month).

Sorry OP, this doesn't help you I am just frustrated by how often I read people on MN talk about 'putting' people in residential care. Even when it absolutely would be the best thing for everyone concerned it is incredibly hard to arrange this unless you have the agreement of the person concerned and you are super rich.*

ITA. IMO, some posters are being naive about residential care. First of all, the LA should do an assessment of NDN's capacity. If she still has capacity (and lots of people have anti-social behaviour with capacity), then they cannot just "put her in residential care", unless she agrees. Its in a contravention of her human rights, and right to a private and family life in her community. We are not living in the 19th century, when single pregnant women, inconvenient wives, etc could just be put in asylums.

If she does not have capacity, then they can put her in a residential care home if its in her best interests; but its not a magic wand that can cure challenging behaviour (unless it has a simple explanation like an UTI). People with challenging behaviour just carry on assaulting the residential care workers, rather than the community care workers.

DD has challenging behaviour and learning disabilities - she has been in the most specialist residential care; and is deemed to need 1:1 care. There are people in those homes who need 2:1, 3:1 or 4:1 care - because even the onsite teams of clinical psychologists, educational psychologists, consultant psychiatrists, mental health nurses, speech therapists, OTs, etc cannot cure the challenging behaviour.

Actually, DD's behaviour is better with us than residential care workers, because we understand her better than anybody else - however. as for swearing, we must have told her a million times in the last 8 years not to swear; and careworkers must have told her a million times not to swear; and its not made a blind bit of difference to DD. What sanctions do posters think work against an adult, with learning disabilities, who ignores what you say; does not care about money (which they don't really understand anyway), does not care about the judicial system (which is also meaningless to them) and does not understand star charts?

It is easier to get blood out of a stone, than get a LA to fund that kind of care. Actually, someone living in their own home is cheaper, because they may get housing benefit, ESA or a pension, and PIP, which go towards their living costs. Once in residential care, the LA has to pay all the costs of the residential care - which can be £250,000 or £350,000 pa upwards. The service user won't get housing benefit or PIP; once in residential care, although the LA can take all their pension or ESA and leave them about £26 per week for toiletries, clothes, etc - but that is a drop in the ocean against £250,000 pa!

By all means OP, raise safeguarding concerns, if you wish to protect DS; but don't think NDN's challenging behaviour is necessarily just down to unmet needs, which would all disappear in residential care.

Yes they can put her residential if it's safer for the general public. And involuntarily if they need to, regardless of capacity. My DM is in residential care and she did not go willingly but it was deemed to be in the best interests of the public because of how violent and agressive she got. She's still in now having lost capacity since she went into residential care and it's the best thing for everyone. Her included.

I think the more it gets reported the quicker something will be done to help her.

You say that this has happened suddenly, I wonder if she has a urine infection. My grandmother behaved in exactly the same way, she became very aggressive out of the blue, hit my poor grandfather, would lay in bed screaming etc. It went on for weeks and weeks. The doctors were starting the path towards assessing for Alzheimer's if I remember correctly, until a nurse recognised the signs and pushed for her to be given a course of anti biopics, which lo and behold worked. She was back to her normal kindly self a few weeks later.

Antibiotics even!

I wonder if it's something to do with lockdown that has amplified her condition? It's been very tough on some people. But it also sounds quiet rough on you living nextdoor to it and managing the situation with your autistic son (lucky for the ice lollies in the freezer!!) It does sound a lot like assisted living would be much more beneficial to your neighbour than her current situation, so definitely get in touch with the care provider as PP's have said as it would be then that would put in a referral to adult social services. Enjoy your day out

I would ring the care manager -1) to get the ball rolling 2) it supports what the carers have been reporting.
Then call SS just incase the manager does not escalate the issue. Also you have a second trail of evidence that this young lady needs more help. It is entirely possible that someone somewhere could loose or minimise your concerns. To double report would lessen the chances of this happening.
Finally do notify the police - yet another avenue who may be able to speed up the process of getting her help, and might save someone from serious harm in your neighbours home.

You have a lot of experience- what would you tell someone else to do in your situation? You would tell them to act!

Agree with Bargebill19.

Contact SS and explain about your concerns about the deteriorating behaviour. Ask for this to be passed on to your NDN GP. Write down what is happening and when, and tell SS that it is causing immense distress / harm to your children.

Also tell the care manager that you are concerned about the abuse / attack of care staff by NDN and say that you would be willing to act as witness to this - it sounds like they are struggling with NDN and shouldn't have to put up with dealing with such challenging needs.

If nothing improves within a few weeks of reporting to SS and the care agency, email your local Councillor with all the information you have

Care staff policy is normally to report to the police anyway. They know the complaint cannot be actioned on but its normally part of policy. The screaming and swearing is enough to make a call, i wouldn't worry about waiting for another incident. You wouldn't be able to report tbe assault anyway as your not the victim, but the ladys behaviour would fall in under a concern for welfare

As upsetting as it is, you are entitled to enjoy your home and garden in peace. It's not your fault that she lives there.
In any other situation with a neighbour behaving that way you would naturally call the authorities. It does feel unkind to do so on a disabled person but you will probably be doing her a favour. She sounds like a danger to herself and to others- what if during a 4am session of car banging, someone comes out and smacks her one? She sounds very vulnerable, and it doesn't sound like she really has an advocate to speak up for her.
When they don't, it allows councils and the likes to let them fall through cracks as no one is voicing concerns and demanding something is done. The issue is as well when she is violent to her care staff, they will at some point withdraw their services and if they are NHS or council mandated she will need to pay for private specialist care and it's not likely she will recognise that she needs to if she has slid this far in her behaviour.
I would contact Adult social care and 101 for advice. The police can schedule welfare checks and adult social care may give the team responsible a kick up the backside if it's becoming an antisocial behaviour issue, as will the police.